№ 32 / № 42 - Scope Graticule Replacement

Hello Milsurps,

Im looking to replace a № 42 graticle, i said № 32 as they are very similar.

My question is does anybody have any advice on replacing Graticules. Pictures of the piece that holds the graticle itself would be handy.

I have already seen the info on here giving wire dimensions etc...

I also have Peter Laidler's book on the № 32.

But i would still like to see the graticle piece inside.

My № 42 is perfect condition and the optics are crystal clear but i would like to change the graticle to the rail and post like the № 32. It looks like the threads have been sealed, maybe thats why its still so clear.
The № 42 did have a variation with the rail and post that was mounted on the .22 Winchester Model-74.

Mine is 1943 dated R.E.L/Canada Mk1

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I decided to have a go at disassembly, i have tried to unscrew the brass front shade a few times before but it wont budge a mm.

The screw on the front shade came undone like it was dont up a couple of days ago.

I could see the threads had been sealed with like a grey putty. It was soft and could be scraped away easily with a wooden tooth pick but the thread was still solid.
I decided to heat the front shade gently with a hairdryer, still it wouldnt come undone as i couldnt grip it good enough. I wrapped masking tape around the brass shade to aid grip, put on my leather palmed cycling gloves and kept the scope in the mount to hold the tube. Heated it again and the grip was so good i could unscrew it easily. Success!

Next was removing the lenses, under a hidden pocket of more putty i could see a tiny screw head. I cleaned it out and it once again un screwed like it had just been done up!
I had to apply a small bit of heat after that and the lense slid right out.

At this point i could now see the graticule inside, once again i located another hidden tiny screw covered with putty. A quick dig with a wooden tooth pick and its accessible. Again undid very easy, and that was it. The graticule tube slid out like a treat.

Well its absolutely nothing like the № 32 diaphragm wise, obviously this scope has no adjustment so its a fixed tube with wires soldered in place.

All i have to do is fit a new graticule, easier said than done!

I studied it hard to figure out how they mounted it square and the wires perpendicular to each other.
Very clever, they have machined a very small Vee slot so the wire drops into the Vee essentially self locating on the centre line. Then soldered in place.

To achieve what i would like, i need to get another vee slot machined perfectly square to the verticle slot. Fit wires, job done! Cough!! 🤣

Would anybody like to help with machining these for me, any help much appreciated.
All i need is the machining work done and im happy to do the wires...

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Anybody have any wire or know where to find sum?

Thanks

Save yourself a whole lot of bother and get a No 42 or 53 with what looks like a horizontal AND vertical crosswire. These are actually etched onto a glass plate (which changes the nomenclature from a graticle to a reticle). You then have an already (reasonably) accurately collimated centre-dot/spot to aim with instead of the vertical line which was OK when using it to aim the BESA gun on the Mk7 Churchill but, alas, not a good way to hit targets with a rifle.

The BAD thing about trying to convert your existing No42 inner sleeve (the long brass bit that holds the wire) is that to fix a NEW wire and post, you have to heat up the whole thing to the melting point of solder before it will take. If you insist on converting the glass reticle to cross-wire and post, you can kick out the plate and fit the new wire and post. And you only have a simple 1/16" thick plate to heat up

PS, the reticle plate is held in with screws. Easy to undo, work on and replace.

Thanks for the info Peter.

I should have clarified im looking to use this scope more as a prop than a scope i will be shooting with. Perfect post and wire centering is not essential for this project. I have a 1943 Long Branch and would like to be able to sit this Canadian 1943 scope on top of it.

Realistically if i can get the vee machined then mounting the wire should be pretty straight forward.
I have engineering knowledge and im handy at fine work through an eye glass.

At work we have sum amazing loctite adhesive for metals and was going to glue rather than solder. I know, i know... glue sounds terrible but trust me the glues these days are amazing and will be almost as strong as solder.

I have my heart set on this scope also for the amazing condition its in. Its one of the best i have seen, and 42 prices seem to be creeping up. I was lucky, this cost me £50!

I was going to say how simple it all seems to be nowadays but will hold off on that. But back to the subject and keep my immediate thoughts to myself.....

You are really making a mountain out of a molehill if you don't mind me saying. If, as you say, a perfect post isn't an important or critical issue then centreing the little V slot for the upright grat post is absolute simplicity itself. And by using a pair of dividers, you will get the new slot EXACTLY square and EXACTLY central. Exactly right should be near enough I say.

Hold inner sleeve in 3-jaw vice and file small accurately marked out slot with model-makers triangular needle file. Make sure that you don't touch the crosswire while doing so. Done that and filed a small slot........?
Now mount .006" steel wire into a watchmakers lathe and grind the angled tip of the new post. 10 minutes work - and you'll need your eye glasses for this so get them handy.....
Lay new-made post on inner sleeve. Adjust height in relation to the crosswire, dob of glue, allow to set and there it is. Simple as falling off a log as they say around these parts.

New problem. Assemble up. If locating peg on inner sleeve (shown in photos) puts new post and crosswire 90degrees out in relation to the scope markings and segment cover, just rotate scope to suit OR rotate inner sleeve until it is correct in relation to your rifle. Drill and tap 10BA, replace anti rotation screwed peg and assemble up
What could possibly go wrong?

Yeah, that is pretty straight forward!
Thanks for taking the time to lay it out like that, sometimes my brain runs away with itself... i will follow all advice.

Think my biggest issue will be sharpening the post. I have a standard lathe (Colchester Bantam) but that is a tad too big.
Maybe i need to find a watch maker who can grind me up a post or 2.

Thanks again Peter, i will update this tread with pictures as i go.

Why not just find a real No32 scope to put on the rifle, or one of the copies, if it is just a prop?

There can't be too many REL No.42's around, especially in that condition. Shame to damage it

I cant afford a real No.32 and i dont want to buy a reproduction.

I take your point onboard about my scope but i wouldnt say im damaging it. Just modifying it and could be put back as was at any point. Just think of all the No.42 that have been sacrificed to save a No.32.
At least mine is loved and will be enjoyed. Just like the date and Canadian connection between scope and rifle.

Roy, you’d probably want to hang me from the nearest yardarm then........I have a large cardboard box FULL of No42 & No53 tubes that I’ve nadgered over the years in order to pinch the lenses to complete needy No32’s. Other parts come in handy too, such as the segments, ocular lens retaining rings, & even the tubes themselves. Thanks to a trick taught to me by Peter years ago, even a No32 with a rusted through or torn ocular housing can be repaired with a little ‘grafting’.

Got any of those graticle tubes going handy? One of the only bits not used in a 32!
Then i could keep mine as is and fit another spare in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

Roy, you’d probably want to hang me from the nearest yardarm then........I have a large cardboard box FULL of No42 & No53 tubes that I’ve nadgered over the years in order to pinch the lenses to complete needy No32’s. Other parts come in handy too, such as the segments, ocular lens retaining rings, & even the tubes themselves. Thanks to a trick taught to me by Peter years ago, even a No32 with a rusted through or torn ocular housing can be repaired with a little ‘grafting’.

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I get that completely Roger. In this case though, where it was required as a 'prop' I thought a repro No.32 would look better, because even as a prop it still doesn't look like a 4T? And if it is just a prop, then why the need for a specific graticle? Each to their own.

Yes, I see your point & if it were me I’d do as you suggest. But, as you rightly say, each to his/her own.

And if the OP decides his conversion is a failure I’ll still give him double his money for the scope so long as the lenses are good! ;-)

Just want to clear a few things up...

I have a deactivated No.4, im making it into a rough sniper rifle for MY collection. Its not fully 100% accurate, tbh im not overly bothered, its just a project and im having fun. I dont want a reproduction scope, aint happening. Rather tape a toilet roll on top of it.

My scope may not be correct but its original 1943. I can live with that, i actually think its more a crime owning a No32 on a deac and it should be getting used.

As for this Graticule modification, i would just like to see a post and rail when looking through the glass. The vertical line made no sense on a sniper.

I have been collecting Sniper Bits and bobs for a few years but cash is tight. Everything i own i got for a bargain.

Heres a picture of my collection, the scope is merely resting in place but you get the idea.

Hopefully things make a bit more sense, i should have been clearer in my post. I do really appreciate everybody's help, input and criticism.

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I was a bit puzzled about mounting a No42 or 53 in the bracket because the tube dia of the No42/53 is 1.025"(?) while the No32 tube dia is exactly 1".

The bracket was machined to fit the No.42.

By resting in place i meant the scope mount to action, not machined the pads to fit yet. Will be doing that soon.

Have you seen the No.42 currently for sale on eBay. He hasnt noticed and tightened up the scope in the mount. Stands proud by a mile.

Picture of mine, then the eBay one.

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So i have been very lucky! I managed to get my hands on a new tube from a very kind forum member. Thank you Roger Payne!

This has now changed it from a graticle to a reticle. The new tube is the version Peter previously mentioned with an etched glass duplex cross wire.

The tube slide right in but the locating pins do not line up and make the crosshair wonky. Luckily the glass plate although pinned has kidney shaped screw slots allowing it to be repositioned and re pinned. Easy job.

The etch does show signs of wear and the lines are broken in places but this seems to be common on old military etched glass.
Looks good tho and now when looking through the glass you see a pleasing crosshair with a bit of character.
Obviously i would love it to be perfect as it was an optically perfect scope, but i have the bonus that i can slide the old tube back in and its back to standard.

Here are pictures of the tube itself showing how small and delicate the glass is, the sight picture and blank sky to show the lines.

The second picture sighting the houses, the milky flare on the bottom right of the glass is just reflection from another window behind.

:thup:

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I don't know whether anyone else has noticed it on the No42's and 53's, that the external anti rotation positioning stud can be found around any left or right sector of the underside in relation to the 12 o'clock position of the segment cover plate. Always in the same longitudinal position of course. It didn't really matter in the great scheme of things because the inner tube and cross-wire or reticle plate was simply rotated and finally positioned on final assembly. But if you have a bunch of No42's or 53's in your hand, look at the stud position in relation to the segment cover plate.

Re the thread above. I would be interested to know if you had to correct the optical parallax and focus after you'd fitted the new inner sleeve. Because a new sleeve/grat/reticle will affect the focus and the ........... anyway!

The focus appears to be no different to how it was before. The image is incredibly crisp, i have noticed the edges are more clean then when the single wire was installed. The top and bottom of the wire would appear slightly blurry.

As for the optical parallax, im unsure of this answer. But using a range finder and my eyes i estimate the parallax to be around the 250 yard mark.

Been having a play around, and thought I would share my progress. I'm still not happy with it but getting better.

The post is just so small it's almost impossible to work with!!

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The curved sides of the tip of the post tells me that it is spinning far too slowly. Insert it as far as you can into the collet and spin at high speed and the angled sides of the tip will be straight. Best to view it on a light table. You occasionally see them on ebay as they used to be used by what we used to call '.....amateur glamour photographers....' So I've been told of course!

Thanks for the tip, was actually done by a good friend of mine.
The post is just so thin, crazy!