Printable View
Fake on ebay WW2 1943 REL CANADA SNIPER SCOPEAttachment 102280Attachment 102281Attachment 102282Attachment 102283Attachment 102284Attachment 102285Attachment 102286 had me fooled for about 5 seconds good job of making it look old. ebay seller eiger75
Attachment 102287 notice fake Canadian army marking on bracket
Pretty crap photos to identify anything Paul!!!!! Or are they the sellers deliberately fuzzy photos. But could those markings on the scope that I can hardly see be overstamped marks from another nation
Oh c'mon guys he only wants £2765 for it! :runaway:
Hopefully these slightly closer pics will help you see the markings better. It looks like it was made with no markings and they were all hand punched.
Attachment 102288Attachment 102289Attachment 102290
The Canadian acceptance mark appears a little unusual because the arrow within the C looks like, to me, that it's pointing downwards instead of the more commonly seen upwards.
Agreed, they are hand punched. You can see where the tube is dented in from the stamping, and the stamps are all over the place for alignment. Also agree the C/i\ has the arrow upside down in relation to the open side of the C. The scope bracket is also one of those modern copies and not an original Cdn bracket. You can see where he has stamped the scope number onto the bracket. I can't say that I have ever seen that before.
You would think that for a possible profit of several thousand dollars, he could have used a pantograph for the engraving.
I agree the bracket is a reproduction, its identical to my accumounts version.
I can't understand why anybody would try and be so greedy on price when its clearly a fantasy piece.
Perhaps the high price is to lend credibility as to it's authenticity. A low price would be an indicator of a fake.
Valid point.
While my knowledge of No32 scopes is very small. I have been studying them lots over the last months as im very interested in this scope.
From what i have seen, the only scopes that had that rough machine finish on the real eye cell portion are the Red Star Mountain reproductions.
Also strange the section with puched the lettering is a different finish and almost smooth.
I must admit that when I saw that rough-as-guts turning on the tube I thought that it was an old No42/53 turned down slightly to 1.00" to fit into bracket. Markings lost. The turret and range heads look OK from what I recall - via the fuzzy photos - so this is what I suspect, without having a look inside.
He's go a rusted out heap of tat Mk1 and stripped the turret from the tube. With me so far........ Got an old No42 tube, skimmed it down on his black and decker hand held lathe and accurately positioned the turret back on with super glue or if he's a bit proud of his work, sweated it in place on the tube as per some originals (oh yes they were.) Bored through the tube using the turret openings as a guide and theere you have it, a re-tubed Mk1. Simple as falling off a log. Done it several times but always replaced the correct markings.
But because he doesn't have an engraving facility, he's taken it to Dewhursts (an old English butchery chain) and had the local butcher stamp the tube to reflect something worth a bit more that his rusty old KL offering
Anyone got any comments on this scenario - or am I a lone voice in the wilderness?
Finish matches the RSM I have, the smooth section around the stampings is likely where the original rather shallow RSM stamps have been removed. Below are a couple of photos of my RSM. Attachment 102299Attachment 102300
I notice it has moved to 1.5k, Still over three times it’s value
Thats a hell of a drop at the flick of a wrist...
Here are the markings on my genuine C No. 32 Mk. IA that was originally made as a No. 32 Mk. I in 1943 by R.E.L. It was in Indian military service and sadly a number of ex-Indian scopes and No. 8 Mk. I cases were stored in terribly wet conditions. These scopes and cases have varying degrees of rust on them. My C No. 32 MK. IA 359-C is is presently with Warren Wheatfield for repairs. Sadly the tube is badly pitted, but as it is a very rare model, it is worth trying to save.
R.E.L. appears to have numbered their scopes as follows:
* C No. 32 Mk. I, IA, II in a single series beginning with 1. The late Clive Law reported that some Mk. IA such as the one shown here were, converted but retained their original serial numbers.
* C No. 32 Mk. 3 in another series beginning with 1.
* C No. 32 Mk. IV (renamed C No. 67 Mk. I) series beginning with 1.
* Lyman Trade Pattern scopes used Lyman 4 digit serial number with "S" suffix.
* Experimental scopes e.g. My R.E.L. Gimbal 3.5X, pilot model for the C No. 32 Mk. IV / C No. 67 Mk. I, is numbered EXP-0144 R (first two numbers appear to be serial number that year, last two digits of the year, meaning of "R" is unknown to me.)
As a result there were hundreds of duplicated serial numbers, so knowing which model is correct for your rifle tells you which scope with a "matching" serial number is correct.
Thanks for the info...
It would appear that the listing has been ended, prematurely, by the vendor.
Er......... who are RSM? Never heard of them and never seen one.
Oh yes, just noticed that it is a repro dated 2014
Incidentally Colin, REL's have a tendency to rust out regardless of where they are. When I was repairing them, I have probably grafted more ocular ends onto REL's than any other make. Probably in the 30's or so including those needing a new rear from the segment cover rearwards
As a matter of interest, the only reference to the Canadian Mk1A I could ever find in any UK literature was along the lines that '.........this is Canadian issued instrument not a UK designated type. While optically and mechanically identical it operates in an identical manner as the Mk2.....' What they're saying is that it it a complete Mk1 EXCEPT that the Mk1A has Mk2 type clicker plates so records range and deflection in 1 minute of angle clicks. The Mk1 drum is not marked between the ranges, the Mk2 drum is marked on the 50 yard marks too. I suppose you could call it a bit of a mix-and-match improvement.
Have just read the ebay description and it looks like we forumers are a bunch of dim-wits. But I still confess that of the couple that I have seen, none so far have been stamped with the designation and number. But I am still willing to learn as they say.............
I cant judge anything by the pics posted but the Bracket stands out most as a modern repro, the turrets etc look legit to me and the rest of the scope looks like it may of been sanded in a lathe, reason for the heavy marks on the tube and the very light marking of TEL. SIGHTING which is just visable.
Its no interest to me but would be worth asking the owner to take some pics of it out of the bracket, just to see what it is, may be worth something to someone.
I expect that he is reading this, so if you are, then this is my advice as a mere bit-part amateur. Strip it down and ask someone who knows what he's doing to simply re-tube the scope from the segment cover rearwards. Lots of strength there, lots of thickness to thread new rear end into, soft solder the invisible threaded joint - reinforced by the 4x 8BA cover screws don't forget and engrave new designation. What could be simpler than that. Not the sort of thing that we'd do in a workshop of course but if it's worth doing, then do it properly
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Red Star Mountain, a Chinese copy of the No32 Mk2, mine so far (1000 rnds +\- on a range, not bashing it around) functions ok, but the finish isn’t great and I assume the internals differ quite a bit.
Additionally I understand columniation was a bit of a faff needing some better pads than it was supplied with, but Fulton kindly took care of that.
I have only a couple of actual 32s and a few 53s and 42s, all seem to have or have had a nice smooth external finish; with no obvious rough machine marks, while only my repro has that machined ridged affect to the barrel and ocular bell.
Where all the originals finished comparably smooth or do some genuine 32s have this banded rough finish that this (maybe?) REL and my RMS repro have?
Mind you, the finish of some of the old, well used and totally worn out L1A1's was pretty dire - both internally and externally it has to be said!
It is surprising that the Afghans didn't copy the scopes in the Khyber Pass same as the rifles--might get some interesting random collections of stampings and letterings that way! The C Broad is clearly fake, particularly since the Canadian issued rifles were mostly Long Branch and had the proper L series serial numbers on the mounts. Any Brit #4Ts which were issued to Canadian troops either wouldn't have had the C BRoad arrow on the mount or would have had it done properly :)
Ed
I read the item description before it was removed from the Bay for whatever reason.
It said it was purchased from realgun and verified by Ian Skennerton...