Now that the Canadian Rangers 303 rifles have been replaced by the C19 in 308, does this affect the price of the original 303 Ranger rifles if you can purchase the older rifles?
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Now that the Canadian Rangers 303 rifles have been replaced by the C19 in 308, does this affect the price of the original 303 Ranger rifles if you can purchase the older rifles?
I wouldn't think it will change anything any more than the relegation of the #4 rifle did. Matter of fact the #4 rifles were about worthless when they went surplus...
Will the ex Ranger No4's be surped for sale Jim, or destroyed?
I've read somewhere that they are being offered to the current 'user', if they don't want them they are to be destroyed.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
"...the original 303 Ranger rifles..." Those are just Long Branch No. 4 Mk I* Lee-Enfields.
"...if you can purchase the older rifles?..." The CF hasn't released any surplus firearms for eons. Government won't let 'em. Literally thousands of perfectly serviceable No. 4's , No. 7's, C1A1/C2's, Inglis BHP's and Sterling SMG's were chopped, years ago. Some of the C1A1's and BHP's were brand spankin' new too. I've heard unconfirmed stores of there being 500,000 C1A1 rifles in storage. And all the BHP's I ever saw in Militia use were in horrible condition. Finish being worn off, primarily.
Was talking with a Reg Force guy I knew, years ago, who told me he witnessed C1A1's(might have been Lee-Enfields. It was years ago.) being run over with a Leopard tank on CFB Borden.
Gunparts, Stateside, got some parts, but the majority of the stuff was destroyed by government order.
Nothing new, they destroyed a lot of the Ross rifles right after WWII.
That's terrible news, considering the Canadian Government (like the UK) are hellbent on destroying taxpayer property, I'm amazed the Rangers are allowed to buy their issued No4.
Never mind those rantings #5...he lost focus.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
The gov't won't sell anything weapon oriented. Don't believe the story about them being offered to the holder. We HAVE PCMRangers here that can probably put this to rest for you...but the Gummn't won't sell weapons of related fodder. It will be smelted.
Well, being as they only manufactured about 88,000 C1/C1A1/C2/C2A1 rifles i question anyones ability to store 500,000 of them...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunray
A quantity of the no4 rifles are being sent to Colt Canada for deactivation. They will be made available to CF museums. Not sure if any live ones are being offered,as crazy as that sounds.
The reason I ask is because I met a Canadian Ranger that has his No4Mk11 Enfield, he is willing to sell to me with all the accompanying paperwork and pics of him with the rifle.
He already has his new C19, I hope to get pics soon as he gets back up north, i hope to get the rifle about a week later.:D
Let me set the record straight.......Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
Rangers are not able to buy their old service rifle, they are being "gifted" them as long as he/she wants to keep it. They must have a valid firearms licence or else "no dice". Our patrol here in Dawson went thru this exercise about 4 months . Out of 33 Rangers..... they all were interested in keeping their Lee Enfield, mind you there were a few that had neglected to have in their possesion a up to date firearms licence (expired) or it was in the process of being renewed. There seems to be a small grace period for those in that situation. Those who could not produce a current valid licence......their Enfield rifles were taken away (but with the possibility of being gifted them at a later date once a valid licence is produced) but at the same time receiving the new C19. Those who were still in limbo meaning their fingerprints and paperwork (not firearms licence) was not up to date did not receive the new C19 and retained their Lee Enfield as their service weapon till that was squared away.....when paperwork and fingerprints are up to date they will be issued the C19 and will be gifted the Lee Enfield as long as they have a valid firearms licence
Hope this clarifies .
Enfield Mk2 you say ... sounds fishy to me, I thought they only had Long Branch No4's issued?Quote:
Originally Posted by 303carbine
---------- Post added at 12:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 PM ----------
Many thanks for the clarification, will the gifted rifles be allowed to be sold on at some point Bros?Quote:
Originally Posted by bros
I wouldn't eat that one...Quote:
Originally Posted by 303carbine
Thank you Bros, that makes it clear for them. I knew the Gummt' wouldn't sell them to the public...Quote:
Originally Posted by bros
Once they own it and all dies down I should think it will be like any #4. Be wary of those that smell gold and stab you with a "Story" about "This is a REAL "Ranger" rifle"... So pay me HUGE...Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
You need to understand the lack of care most of those rifles received. Many were issued new and turned to junk by the next year's camp. Every damage you could possibly mention.
Many of the Ranger rifles were bought on the surplus market AFTER some bright spark in Ottawa decided to get rid of the No.4s in war stocks.
So the rifles can be any mark or manufacture of the No.4. But there are some really nice Long Branches out on issue.
All the live 303 rifles were withdrawn from the Army Cadet organisation, which killed our large bore marksmanship program. Ours were mint looking LB, just beautiful. They would be the ones to find.
Most Rangers take really good care of their rifles. Maintain and keep them clean and oiled. Some Rangers, not so much.
If buying an ex-Canadian Ranger Lee-Enfield, do check on condition (inside and out) as well as the maker, year etc. first. I know “bros” and he is very knowledgeable about these rifles and the Rangers.
I bought some ex-Ranger rifle No.4 furniture a few years ago, expecting decent Long Branch wood sets. Suffice to say I was disappointed when I received the parts as there was a lot of British wood in the batch and some of the wood was in really rough condition. This was obviously why they had been replaced. I do not blame my friend (not “bros”) who sold it to me as I had the “rose coloured glasses” on and I did not ask enough questions.
If the rifle is good, I don't care where it came from or what story is attached.
It will be a hunting rifle and will be used in the manner it was intended, self defense from big fuzzy things that can eat you and those critters that I want to put in the fry pan.:dancingbanana:
Never heard the Germans described as big fuzzy things.......Quote:
Originally Posted by 303carbine
I've been described as a 'teddy bear', does that count? But then I'm only half German...Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
It's going to be a hunting rifle not intended for two legged varmints.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
As Englishman.ca mentions, we bought several thousand no4mk2 in the late 90s to supplement the existing stocks of rifles. I heard form a weapons tech friend in Edmonton around 2005 that they were doing in inspections on several thousand more rifles which he indicated to be of Indian manufacture, however when I talked with the LCMM on this subject a few years ago he did not know about them. One of the two is mistaken.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
I remember when I first got into the regular force in the early 80s, about 300 no4s came from base supply over to us at base maintenance for destruction. The bolts came over about a year or two later for the same fate.
That's the sad part, we only had so many and that was that. Not bad enough we're short of collector grade stuff, shooter grade is suffering. Then a huge purchase is done and these are culled off the market. Now through things changing...we've just deprived the collectors of those hundreds or thousands...whatever it actually was. They'll meet the same fate through time...
Again to set the record straight........................
Anyone with a valid firearms licence can purchase a Ranger Rifle as long as it was a gifted rifle and acquired while the Ranger possessed a valid firearms licence. The "Crown" no longer owns it once the gifting process is completed and the rifle is treated as any other in "private possession".
Canadian Ranger rifles are by no means limited to just Longbranch manufacture...my Ranger rifle is a Faz No4 MK2 and I have seen others in our patrol that are the same while most still are Longbranch. I have examined all.......sorry no rare 1941 dated Longbranch rifles...the earliest I examined was a 1942.
I believe our gov't funneled a lot of their Enfield war stock no4"s in the early days to the Mujahideen in Afganistan and subsequently had to buy No4's from abroad to fill the gaps created by themselves........hence my Faz no4 mk2!!!! It is US import marked on the front of the barrel so it's been around the block a time or two.
Go figure.....Longbranch manufactured in excess of 900,000 rifles and as a Canadian Ranger I'm issued a English made Enfield that was probably purchased by the Canadian gov't from a surplus arms dealer in the US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No complaints from me about owning a Faz No4 MK2 though.....it's an accurate beauty, all matching and it will remain with me...sorry it's not for sale!!!
I think that covers everything Bros, thanks for the thorough breakdown.
Interesting to touch on the Afghan "donations", a friend of mine who logged and destroyed captured weapons in country among his responsibilities, noted many of the No4's where Long Branch.
No, that's understood.Quote:
Originally Posted by bros
The difference is the ones held still in stock of wherever...worshop, stores... The ones the rangers have will go wherever but they comprise a smaller number than the holdings. The ones in hands of the gov't will not come available...
If I do get the Ranger rifle, I will be glad to have another Enfield with a good background.
One of the biggest moose I ever shot was with an all original No1MK111 that looked like it had been dragged across the desert by a camel, the bore was good and it shot and functioned perfectly.
When all other rifles have frozen shut and fail to fire, my 303 will do as it was designed, to function under all conditions.
I never met an original 303 I didn't like...............:dancingbanana:
Well said..............couldn't agree more!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by 303carbine
At -40 or colder a few times bolt was seized shut on my No4 but that was my fault for not running the action "dry". I've never tried powdered graphite but that may be a lube that would still work in the extreme cold. A couple drops of gas line anti-freeze kept conveniently under the snowmobile seat solves the frozen bolt issue rather quickly.
The only place you could shoot a Moose at -40 in the UK, is if you stole one from a zoo and shot it at one of our indoor skiing centres!
The great thing about the Lee action, is it just works, from the tropics, to the frozen hinterlands.
If I was way out north, alone and facing hungry wildlife, that viewed me a lunch, I would certainly want my Maltby No4 close at hand, hard to think of a better rifle for the job.
My go to work rifle is a No 5. Very handy as some critters found out to their detriment thinking I would be a push over.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
Danes in Greenland prefer a M1917 rifle with a modified front and rear sight, forget the load they issue with it but something pretty big. Big bullet in a 30-06 seems like the ticket for a polar bear.
I used to load a 220 gr Speer for guys for bear and moose and they all liked it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick303
Have you ever seen a German girl's arm-pits?? :madsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
Not that I know anything about German girls, but aren't you looking at the wrong places?
Not that I know anything about Germanicon girls, but aren't you looking at the wrong place
German women are hairy all over. It is German thing.
We bow to your superior knowledge.
Wunderbar!
It's not where you look, it's what you see. Some things can't be "un-seen".Quote:
Originally Posted by Daan Kemp
I was looking over some of the ranger rifles a few years back, they were pretty sad looking specimens for the most part. Many were mismatched, bedding was worn out, bores were rough. There were a very few nice ones, but they were suffering from a lack of maintenance.
Strange, I mentioned that was was burned in effigy...yet I stand by it. Few actually took care, some outright abused theirs.Quote:
Originally Posted by QCM37CDN
It is true, one of my friends joined and his issue rifle was a wreck. Bolt was mismatched, and a quick check showed it was only locking on the solid rib. The bore was hopeless. He requested a replacement, and when it arrived, he regretted complaining about the first one.... Lots of them would make pretty nice rifles with a lot of TLC, some only needed a good cleaning. A few were well looked after. I recall that they all had C1 slings. Never understood that thing! The L-E sling was a masterpiece of simplicity, durability, and easy to use. The C1 sling is flimsy and hard to adjust quickly. Anyhow, I always felt that the government should have spent more time teaching firearms maintenance, it broke my heart to see such valuable rifles deteriorate into scrap.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
I knew all the guys in the upper echelon so I ended up in the stores with the rifle. That guy was a particular friend and a shooter of some note...he was cannibalizing rifles regularly to keep them on the road and had a collection of every mark and model for a while. Eventually they had to be issued too. The newer FN slings weren't very good, the old brass bucked one was solid. They weren't meant to be quickly adjusted...they were long gone though.
Now, I didn't say the rangers were careless or a bunch of dicks... I just said their rifles were ratty.