I'm going to re-barrel my Ross Mk III

Krieger barrels will happily make a contoured and rifled blank for the Ross. I have a gunsmith that will remove the old barrel, so that I can send it to Krieger for them to copy. Once I receive the new barrel, about 3 months, the gunsmith will cut the threads (I have read they are 12TPI), chamber it in 303 British, blue it and install it.

I'm really tempted to go with a .308 barrel instead of .311. Factory 303 British is hard to find and expensive when I do. I hand-load so that's not a big deal but the selection of .311 bullets is meager at best and non-existent at worst.

If I go with a .308 barrel I can get just about any kind of bullet under the sun. I can also go with 5R rifling from Krieger, which I have found to be really easy to clean. As this is 30-1/2 barrel that becomes a small factor.

I've never loaded .308's in 303 cases so I'm not exactly sure how that will work but I know a lot of folks do it.

Should I go with the .308 bore?

Before you do anything, can you provide a description and pictures of the rifle in question. Any changes could significantly affect the value of the firearm.

I'm not sure what it's worth to me as a wall hanger. If you shoot it now you have yell FOUR! And warn people next to you to duck. As I said, it looks really good on the outside. The bore? Looks like a sewer pipe.

Curious what the Krieger barrel costs?
(I wasn't aware that they did 1910 Ross barrels. This will be a topic of conversation on Thursday because I shoot smallbore with someone who works at Krieger.)
Maybe look into re-lining the original barrel? I know that Krieger can do that also.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Abitnutz

I've never loaded .308's in 303 cases

---

I did that back in the '80s and it worked exactly the same as loading anything else. Your expander ball in the size die must be from a .308 or turned down to accommodate. The dies seemed to size the neck down fine and the cases held .308 bullets fine. I loaded for .303 ammo with 150 gr spec because that was what size I used. They shot fine. I think that's a great idea...too. After all it's your rifle and you want to shoot it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gustro79

Maybe look into re-lining the original barrel?

---

I'm not sure about the safety of lining a full bore cartridge, do they do that? I know about smaller calibers like the pistol and .22...? Do they install barrel liners in .303?

If you go with a .308, I think that the 155 Sierra would shoot great in that barrel. If you are going to only shoot 150’s to 170gr you may want to think about a 1-12” twist barrel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I did that back in the '80s and it worked exactly the same as loading anything else. Your expander ball in the size die must be from a .308 or turned down to accommodate. The dies seemed to size the neck down fine and the cases held .308 bullets fine. I loaded for .303 ammo with 150 gr spec because that was what size I used. They shot fine. I think that's a great idea...too. After all it's your rifle and you want to shoot it.



I'm not sure about the safety of lining a full bore cartridge, do they do that? I know about smaller calibers like the pistol and .22...? Do they install barrel liners in .303?

---

I talked to Krieger about this tonight. Yes, he says a re-lined barrel is completely safe. The trick is to find someone with the ability and willingness to do the job. He said something about needing to see if that's "available" in .303 brit. (I don't know what that means exactly.) That is the best-case scenario for a collectible rifle with a sewer-pipe bore imo.

I recommend if you do decide to put a .308 bore on it, marking it on the barrel somewhere indicating that just for future shooters to know. Otherwise sounds like a worth while project.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eaglelord17

marking it on the barrel

---

Absolutely...308/.303 or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gustro79

"available" in .303 brit.

---

I think he means the reamer. The bore would be easy but the reamer would be special. I think the Australians shoot some .308/.303. They have done lots with .303 rifles and I'm pretty sure a reamer is available.

We did a whole examination of this before here... https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=56698

Here's more... Reloaders: Can I use a .308 projectile in a .303 rifle? | The High Road

Here's a manufacturer that you could examine or try Brownells but I think this one's a special order. 30 Cal - 339 Cal Chamber Reamer - Pacific Tool and Gauge

"...have read they are 12TPI..." That doesn't mean much. There are Withworth threads(square) and American that are not the same thing. I'm not sure which the Ross used, but it matters. Rumour has it that at one point they used Withworth and left hand threads but switched to American at some point.
So does your smithy having the proper tools to remove and install a Ross barrel. Mostly the correct bushing and, more important, the correct action wrench. A pipe wrench or adjustable wrench is not the correct tool.
There are some guys here who discussed it in 2012/13.
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=41835

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunray

"...have read they are 12TPI..." That doesn't mean much. There are Withworth threads(square) and American that are not the same thing. I'm not sure which the Ross used, but it matters. Rumour has it that at one point they used Withworth and left hand threads but switched to American at some point.
So does your smithy having the proper tools to remove and install a Ross barrel. Mostly the correct bushing and, more important, the correct action wrench. A pipe wrench or adjustable wrench is not the correct tool.
There are some guys here who discussed it in 2012/13.
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=41835

---

Obviously a proper barrel vise and action wrench are required if a barrel is to be removed and replaced on a Mk. III rifle.
Ross Mk. III barrels can be in tight.
Mk. II (except for the II** rifle) have a unique rapid twist modified buttress left hand thread. There is a set screw which locks the barrel in place, properly indexed. Once the set screw is removed, the barrel will unscrew without difficulty, frequently without the use of a barrel vise or action wrench. The barrels were designed to be changed without difficulty.
The Mk. III is different. Its barrel has conventional right handed square threads. I have a Mk. III barrel in the shop. If anyone is interested, I could take measurements of the shank.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gustro79

to see if that's "available" in .303 brit.

---

Now I get it, he meant if the LINER was available in the caliber desired. Had to read it again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tiriaq

If anyone is interested, I could take measurements of the shank.

---

I too have line drawing of said barrel shanks...could post them.

With respect to .30/.303... This is certainly a workable option, which allows a wide variety of excellent bullets to be used.

The barrel came off but it had to be back cut on a lathe...whatever that means. I was warned by those who know that's what would have to be done. So I'll be sending the barrel off to Krieger shortly to be copped and chambered.

I've decided to go with a 303 British with a .308 bore with 5R rifling and 1 in 10 twist. My experience with 5R rifling is that they're easier to clean, and with a 30.5 inch barrel and a guy that hates to clean guns it was a easy decision.

I just turned down the expander ball in the .303 dies and loaded normally. The cases held the bullets fine.

I suspect that the shoulder of the barrel was relieved to relax the torque, and make the barrel easier to remove. Mk. III Rosses and P'14/M1917 Enfields have a reputation being challenging to de-barrel.

I've just ordered the custom reamer from Clymer Tool. It'll be the standard 303 British with a .308 bushing. This will create a 30/303 British. Bothe Clymer Tool and Krieger Barrels are just awesome companies to deal with. Incredibly knowledgeable people with unending patience in dealing with an idiot.

Not an idiot, just the first time you've done this.

[QUOTE=Abitnutz;461237 Incredibly knowledgeable people with unending patience in dealing with an idiot.[/QUOTE]

Hey, Abitnutz, I'd like to follow Jim's acknowledgement and congratulate you on:

1. Your manner of researching first, then asking
2. Your appreciative communication
3. Your listening and consideration of suggestions
4. Your persistence
5. Your considered approach to resolving your situation

You've presented an excellent study on how to get on with others with more knowledge and to demonstrate a genuine learning process. This is rare in the selfish 'me, me, me, now, now, now...' world we live in. I'm really impressed with your story and the journey you've shared.

Thank you. I think you're a model Milsurps member. :thup:

I hope others can learn from your example.

Once it's done maybe we can have a look. Also the ammo once loaded and show us how it prints...

.30-.303?

Been around for ages. At least one US gun magazine did an article back in the 1970s.

I have been running one on No4 action for about twenty years. Mine used a pre-loved Omark target rifle barrel trimmed at the chamber end and re-profiled. Only catch is that it has 1:12" twist rifling. The chamber was cut with a standard .303 reamer with a .299" pilot fitted for the job. It WILL chamber and fire Mk7 ammo, but accuracy is not good because the Mk7 bullets are too long to properly stabilize in a 1:12" twist at sane .303 velocities. If you are intent on using longer heavier bullets and have a spare 1:10" twist .300 / .308" barrel jying around, go for it.

Sierra 155 Palmas work well in my 1:12" .30-.303, as do the Australian-made BJD "HBC" bullets, even with the generous throating for the Mk7. Most "off the shelf" .303 reamers are cut to "traditional" dimendions; meaning that the throat (Leade) will be long enough to easily accommodate 220grain round-nosed .312" bullets If you are going for maximum performance get the chamber cut with a throat SPCIFICALLY for 155 Sierras or such. It then certainly will have problems with longer, heavier bullets, but, does that really matter?

.308 bullets in the 168-180gn range (HP or SP, but NOT some of the super-slinky "VLD" style) may well work in the 1:12" twist, IF you keep velocities up. For any given bullet and rifling combination, stability is determined by spin "velocity" / "rate". Spin rate is determined by muzzle velocity from that twist rate. See .300 "Whisper" / Blackout for an extreme modern demonstration.