Ross M.1910 Mk.III Warner & Swasey Sniper Rifle Restoration

Some may have already read on the Ross M.1910 Mk.III barreled action that had turned up and been discussed in this thread here: https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=68310

As I had mentioned at the very end of the thread I have been the one who bought the barreled sniper action from the seller. I have held a scope bracket milled to exact the original specs to the receiver, and it perfectly lined up with the holes in the receiver - therefore leaving little doubt on it once having been an original sniper rifle. For the start post I'm therefore re-posting the picture of holding the rail to the receiver showing how perfectly the holes align.


Edit: I think I (re)added the pictures not as they were originally. Sorry for this, but I don't remember in which post I had posted which pictures - hence I added the pictures of the restored rifle to this starting post.

Second step was to find out which threading they had used to affix the base to the receiver. The original drawing said a very odd threading. Trying something British such as 4BA however turned out to not be correct, so I nevertheless I went through the hassle of getting a thread cutter for this extremely unusual threading and see if it fits. This was a special order since it is so uncommon.The result was that the drawing was fully correct, therefore I have then had made a set of screws to affix the base and this is where I'm currently at and what the attached pictures show. Last picture shows it with one of my Canadian scopes already in place - this already makes it very heavy and bulky too!

Now to be done is the correct fitting of the scope rail to the receiver, as also visible in the pictures. And the screw heads are also a bit proud (as visible by the shadow, the diameter of the screw head is perfectly fitting), which however was done on purpose to properly fit them later too. Also the screws will then be shortened to correct length once fitting of the scope rail is done.

Aside of this of course the barreled action needs to be recompleted with a lot of parts. I have purchased some of which I hope to be getting within the next few days to post some more progress. Additionally the receiver also needs some repair of a damage for which I'll need to give over to someone with more skills and abilities than I am. I hope this won't last too long, but good work takes time.

Well its great to see the old girl is coming along, it came close to being over looked. It was definitely aan original sniper rifle from the great war ,if only it could talk.Well its in good hands now and well be preserved and and cared for as a genuine relic of ww1.Cant wait to see the final product.

What's interesting about it is the change of number under the mount base. That could only be stamped there with the mount base removed. The logical conclusion therefore is that when the second scope was fitted the armourer removed the base from the original rifle in the belief that the base was unique to the scope, and that the side wall of the receiver was a consistent dimension so that when the base was fitted to the second rifle (this one), collimation would be be maintained.

So, when originally fitted were the bases tweaked until they collimated, or were they fitted to the rifle and the dovetail then given its final machining in a jig, similar to how H&H machined the pads on the No.4(T)?

And of course, just how accurately repeated were the side wall dimensions in the Ross MkIII?? Certainly they maintained a high standard of finish throughout production...

We know from Clive Law's research that these rifles were requested by the UK in 1940, but Canada declined to turn them over and used them for training until perhaps early 1944, when it seems the scopes were scrapped for their heavy bronze content, except for a couple of dozen survivors.

From the available information, only about 150 of these rifles got to France in WWI, so presumably this one was refitted in WWII.

Well .. a new scope was mounted if the previous scope got damaged or went missing. If it was damaged in action the scope rail might also got damaged. Therefore it doesn't mean the scope was individual to the rail. Since original rails also carried the scope serial, it could had been that they swapped the rail which came with the other scope which has had the correct serial on it too.

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Originally Posted by Promo

Well .. a new scope was mounted if the previous scope got damaged or went missing. If it was damaged in action the scope rail might also got damaged. Therefore it doesn't mean the scope was individual to the rail. Since original rails also carried the scope serial, it could had been that they swapped the rail which came with the other scope which has had the correct serial on it too.

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One has to remember that most of these sets never got to France. They were used for training in WWII, and possibly some in WWI in the UK. My post was referring to the fact that the armourer apparently believed - and he may have had reasons - that the base or "rail" was to stay with the scope rather than the rifle.

Clive Law's research showed that there were more scopes than rifles with bases in store in Canada in the 1930s. This could be because the rifles had been worn out and were condemned and scrapped, or because they were simply "lost" in the system. His research also showed that the rifles and scopes were stored at different armouries: Lindsay, Ontario and Quebec City IIRC.

When WWII began, additional bases were made up so as to fit all scopes to rifles. Also 80 odd scopes were sent to the UK with the 1st Division in 1939/40, to be fitted there to P14 rifles with bases made in the UK IIRC.

So, this barrelled action may be one fitted up in WWI or WWII. Without the original stock there is no way to tell. As rifles or scopes were condemned from wear and tear in training use during WWI or II, "mixing and matching" would be expected.

Rob, we've anyway had lengthy discussions on the P.14 with the Canadian W&S telescope ... still have not found one of these rifles, but I did not give up!

For unknown reason this rifle got stripped of its original scope and a new one was fitted. Maybe it is as simple as the scopes and rifles were stored separately and the matching numbers scope got lost or damaged and they then fitted another scope - who knows. It is however interesting because I personally have not seen before another Ross where two scopes were fitted.

Speaking of this, the rifle is currently with a friend of mine. Restoration on it will finally start next month (he had another project he is about to finish) and I hope to be able to get it back within the next half year. Quite a tough project since there are some parts that have to be rebuilt, welded and repaired. I borrowed the friend of mine another Ross M1910 rifle to check how it should look like, to make it easier to understand the function.

WW1 Sniper Scope: Warner Swasey M1913 Sight for Canadian Ross Rifle | eBay

I have the required original Canadian scope, but thanks for the link! Have seen this one, think it is a bit too pricey. I paid $ 3500 for my Canadian M1913 scope a few years back, compared to $ 1500 the US M1913 scopes were back then (all prices in USD, not CAD).

Restoration is complete. Too much hours went into it to be mentioned, but thanks to nowadays technologies such as laser welding you can even repair a bullet hit to a receiver.

Therefore, just enjoy the results shown in the attached pictures. I guess the restoration will remain as close as I can get to an original Ross M1910 sniper rifle.

Last three pics.

Decided to restore it to resemble one of the snipers with the cutdown stock. Not only because they are different, but also because a sporter 1910 stock is easier to source. Doesn't look too bad when in hands!

Very nice...finally.

Amazing work - thank-you very much. Too few of us have the where-with-all, skills, and dedication to take on a project like this.

Fine piece of work indeed. Well done, and compliments to your gunsmith, also.

Well done. I see a few small differences from Doug's example, but that's not a bad thing at all. Perhaps a good soak in linseed would help to return the stock & handguard to what I assume was their original length.

very nice George ,you must be happy to finally see it complete ,looks great.

Hey Gordon, I hope you like the results! Appreciate your feedback!

You have my complete admiration . Hope you give us a range report .

Promo-- Fantastic restoration befitting of the Promo museum! I am curious about the micro welding. Can you give any details about the process and equipment? Thanks Salt Flat

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Originally Posted by soonerfan66

You have my complete admiration . Hope you give us a range report .

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Thanks! I am afraid however that you'll not get a range report since I do not plan to shoot with this rifle. While from a technical point of view I'd trust the repair (that in fact reinforced the rifle), I generally prefer to rather not shoot my items of higher value since you usually never know what could happen. I have enough guns to shoot, so no necessity to bring this one to the range. I'd rather enjoy it holding it in hands and to imagine what it once had seen in the field.

Salt Flat, laser welding is basically welding, but the method of the laser allows to bring the temperature in very quickly and very precisely. Therefore temperature cannot go too far and result in (major) damage of the original heat treatment, as well as the weldseam usually is much more precise than with normal welding. I didn't do this, nor did the person who did the whole restoration for me do it himself. He used a laser welding company which he had worked with in the past to do this work. They should know what they are doing, plus very important is also the material you "add" to the object you repair. If not of similar (steel) mixture it might look the same when blank, but once finish is applied, you'll have different colors. And finally, there were several laser welding sessions invested in this rifle. Basically you add material, but you can't be this precise to already be in full shape back again. So material gets added by welding, then milled back in shape. And sometimes in small spots the welding was not enough so you'd need to do this area a second time. Plus of course during welding you can only add small amount of material, this means if a larger chip is missing you'd need a replacement part in approx shape which is then by welding affixed to the rifle. As you might now see yourself, not an easy task and something you'd only do with items that are really worth the work.

Its great to see the rifle complete ,the time and patiance and money to bring this ww1 peice of history back to life is a labor of love that only those with a connection to such things can understand.
Great job George thank you for your dedication to this project and for bringing it back to life for everyone to see and admire for years to come.

Gordon, you were the one who made it possible. Hence I am the one to thank you!