Ross Rifle Identification?

Okay, here is my first Ross rifle. Unfortunately I’m not sure what I have. Here’s what I can tell you:

1. I think it is an Mk II, possibly a Model “M”?
2. Caliber is 303 British, or at least I think it is. I have not done a chamber cast. It came with a set of 303 British dies.
3. The barrel is about 24” long
4. The front sight looks like standard military issue with a sight hood
5. The rear sight is an L-shaped leaf type that can be flipped back and forth. The two blades are almost buckhorn style.
6. The buttplate is steel with a sliding door for storage.
7. The stock appears to have been cut. I hope that it did not leave the factory looking like this, it practically screams “Bubba”. There are no markings of any kind on the stock.
8. The left side receiver rail reads “ROSS RIFLE CO QUEBEC CANADA 1905 PATENTED” in two lines
9. There is a three digit serial number stamped into the barrel at about the end of the chamber, under the handguard

Can anybody tell me for sure what this is?

I think you have a sported II***.

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Originally Posted by tiriaq

I think you have a sported II***.

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Question is whether the sporterization was done before or after it left the factory. Do the front and rear sights look like anything that would have been installed by Ross, or are they after market? Did Ross ever make a 24 inch barrel? Just for grins I looked up a bunch of 1960's vintage ads from companies that sold guns by mail (e.g. Hunter's Lodge), but did not see any Ross rifles advertised.

It has no value as a collectors rifle. At best it is a parts rifle.
Do a search and see what a 1905 should look like.

ross rifle 1905 - Bing images


expensive to restore: Ross Rifle Restoration

Restoration is out of the question. I was looking for a "shooter" when I bought this. Can anybody comment on whether the front sight looks like an original Ross, or is it a replacement on a cut down barrel?

Front sight is definitely Ross. Rear sight is unknown to me.

Yes it certainly looks likes an original Ross front sight. I checked out a couple of GunBroker listings that had extensive pictures. I would conclude that the barrel is an original factory sporter barrel and not cut down from 28". I can't imagine that someone would have recontoured a cut down barrel just so they could reuse the original front sight.

Look at the left side of the barrel breech. Is there a serial number stamped with small numerals? Factory sporting 1905 barrels will be so marked. Factory sporting barrels do not have a military front sight.

Okay, here is a picture of the three-digit serial number. I was going to try to explain this in words, but could not figure out how. Left side of the barrel, at the end of the chamber area.

Attachment 103411

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Originally Posted by tiriaq

I think you have a sported II***.

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Agree , the number on the barrel is not a serial number but one of the cryptic stamps that RRCo used.

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Originally Posted by green

Agree , the number on the barrel is not a serial number but one of the cryptic stamps that RRCo used.

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Okay, I checked again, the numbers shown in the picture above are the only ones. So if the barrel is cut down, it should be larger at the end than a 28" barrel, right? The barrel diameter on mine is 0.620" at the back end of the front sight, 0.562" at the front (muzzle end) of the front sight. Can anybody measure their barrel diameter on a 28" barrel to compare? Thanks in advance!

Another detail that I think might also point to a sporterized military model - I finally took the action completely out of the stock, and on the bottom of the barrel directly opposite of the rear sight are two holes that I think went to the original front sight. I assume this means that the barrel was rotated 180 degrees and rechambered?

One final detail - it has a crown over "I" over "Q" on the top of the barrel. Is there any significance to that?

Crown I (numeral 1) Q is the mark of military inspector #1 at RRCo stamped on top of barrel.
Ross commercial serial numbers were stamped length wise on lhs of chamber immediately in front of receiver.

Serial numbers on commercial 1905's were also stamped on the stock under the butt plate. Not sure about the 1910's, but suspect they were similarly marked. As others have stated, the 3 digit number on the bbl is not a commercial Ross serial number. That looks to be a military front sight, which would be secured by a set screw under the sight blade. The commercial front sights are secured by a cross pin, which should be visible below the hood. There appears to be a pronounced step in the bbl at the front sight, which suggests the shortened bbl was turned down to accommodate the sight. The rear sight base looks to be the modified remnant of the original Mk II*** sight base, which is basically the same sight base found on a Long Lee or carbine. As others have stated - modified Mk II***.

Okay, thanks for the replies. Definitely looks like a sporterized military model. I assume the sporterization was done by a professional, since the barrel was apparently turned and rechambered, which is beyond even Bubba's considerable talent. FYI, there is nothing that looks like a serial number on or under the buttplate either.

One final question, at least for today: What type of finish did the military Ross rifle have? Was it blued or painted?

It is very unlikely the barrel was set back and re-chambered. The barrel thread on Mk II's, with the exception of the Mk II**, is three TPI. A 180 degree rotation would set the barrel back almost 3/16" and the thread locking screw would likely be no longer able to engage the thread. At least some of the rear sight bases on the Mk II have two points of attachment on the underside of the barrel. Those are likely the holes you see.

Okay thanks, that makes a lot more sense. So I guess the story of the barrels being turned and rechambered to eliminate the slop in military chambers is a firearms "urban legend"?

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Originally Posted by fritz1255

Okay thanks, that makes a lot more sense. So I guess the story of the barrels being turned and rechambered to eliminate the slop in military chambers is a firearms "urban legend"?

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Ross .303 Model 10

Click on above.

Mk. III rifles have conventional right hand square threads, so it would be possible for barrels to be set back and rechambered.
The unusual barrel threads on Mk. II rifles (apart from II**) would make this a very challenging operation.

I was able to do a few more measurements on the barrel and front sight. It looks like the barrel was shortened to 24 inches, then a step was cut into the muzzle end of the barrel prior to remounting the original military front sight. Looks like Bluenoser had the right explanation.

Fritz, I like it as is. It may not be a high dollar collector piece but still an interesting rifle that could be a good shooter. If the rust on the barrel bothers you it could be removed by the electrolysis method. Thumbs up! Salt Flat

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Originally Posted by Salt Flat

Fritz, I like it as is. It may not be a high dollar collector piece but still an interesting rifle that could be a good shooter. If the rust on the barrel bothers you it could be removed by the electrolysis method. Thumbs up! Salt Flat

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Thanks, I am not planning to do anything to it except shoot it. I had been looking for a Ross rifle for months and found this one at a small gun show at a great price. I must have looked like Gomer Pyle at a strip club (Shazam!). The bore is in great shape, looking forward to taking it to the range next week.

CANT SAY FOR SURE BUT I THINK RRco MAY HAVE MADE 1905 RIFLE IN FULL WOOD CONFIGURATION FOR THE CIVILIAN MARKET AS WELLAS THE MILITARY,THIS ONE AS BEEN CUT BACK TO THE MID BAND .SHOULD BE A GREAT SHOOTER ,ENJOY.

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Originally Posted by fritz1255

Okay, here is a picture of the three-digit serial number. I was going to try to explain this in words, but could not figure out how. Left side of the barrel, at the end of the chamber area.

Attachment 103411

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That's not the serial number, opinions vary, but steel or barrel batch numbers or some other factory "in house" record is the most likely explanation.

Bear in mind that these rifles were designed to shoot MkVI ammo, not MkVII. The commercial equivalent is no longer loaded, but you could duplicate it with 215gr round nose slugs and a suitable load in MkVII cases.

My advice is strip it down and clean it well and get it headspaced before taking to the range. It's tired looking, but a good one to start with and the mechanical condition is what matters.