....and so How's Your Luck Holding?

I've been collecting Firearms for a very long time, I started a Rest of World Collection, branched into Mausers, these days Enfields.
As a Collector/Dealer, I passed a lot of fine rifles on, my Mauser collection or part thereof, went to flesh out an old Army mates collection.
He lived in the Blue Mountains, subject to regular Bushfires, and....you guessed it, lost the lot.

Well as I was downsizing my lot, I fleshed him out again....only to have him lose that lot in another fire about ten years later.
He finally got smart and retired to the mid north coast area, so I sourced another lot for him, things looked pretty good, but I did say to him "next time it happens, I'm writing you up"
well you guessed it, done again.....bloody loser, maybe if he'd collected the winning sides firearms he might have had better luck.

Now my Mauser Collection is down to about twenty five, some very valuable bits among them and guess who's pressuring me again, he knows I'm thinking of downsizing again due to being bloody old....do you know how long it takes to clean a couple of hundred rifles?

I'm thinking no, unless he buys a large houseboat and parks it in the middle of a bloody big lake....no and definitely no.

hi with luck like that i would not go near him
that is a shame the fires have been terrible

Sound's like he's jinxed! That is some seriously bad luck!

I have often commented to my wife whilst living in the hills and densely forested areas is really nice and tranquil you really have to have a solid plan to ensure your not going to be over run by a bush fire we in our part of the world suffer horrendous bush fires that defy description as they end up being fire storms.
An ember attack can be 20-30 klm's from the flame front and a crown top fire will toast you because it moves so fast you cannot out run it, we like similar countries have lost fire crews being over run as part of my ERT fire officer training and we watched a film where in Australia Eastern states a father lost his son and other members of a crew to a fast moving flame front.
Such was the radiant heat from that fire front the father's O.P was 1 klm from that fire and the leaves were crisping up and dropping off the trees where he was stationed, his son and crew were in a valley below where a bogged ute cut off their escape route even with HALO system, heat curtains and woolen blankets they all perished.

After a fire has gone through we call the area left behind the dead zone because nothing can survive in that area for an hour or more due to latent heat in the earth and whats left of the scrub our Eucalyptus trees are extremely oily and burn like nothing else and our grass plants (Formally Black Boys) go up like a blow torch.
I live in suburbia in a quaint country town but always ensure leaves from the trees (Park across the road) etc are cleaned up and the gutters are clean as well, no fire prone areas are not a place where I would live I like you all her have pictures of family long gone that cannot be replaced along with other stuff why risk it thats what I reckon.

Double the prices Muffet or even triple them that way at least your legacy of Mausers may survive if he buys them, but me I would look for another luckier (Or wiser) buyer.........

He's not that unlucky, he's survived potentially being vapourised three times! :lol:

Has he never heard of gun safes with fire ratings?

No fire rated safe helps over here.
The heat is so intense, fueled by Eucalyptus and pine trees.. the oils in the timber begin to create vapor and when it ignites, blows the door off the safe.(haven't you watched that video?)
Probably why powder containers have weak doors so they vent instead of exploding.

Over a certain amount of firearms, different storage is required, Phil's last was an external vault(maybe he should have put it underground) steel and cement...didn't help, the heat is just too great, once the timber started to burn..... The big problem is even if you could restock the firearms, the heat damage to the metal is an unknown, they'd never be original and you probably wouldn't like to fire them.

You would probably need an underground safe room at a reasonable depth and maybe a CO2 extinguisher system to assist.

How are things in Australia now? The fires were all over the news a coupl of weeks ago. Are they all out yet? Not seen any updates recently.

No Zed, still burning, half the eastern seaboard is on fire.....well give or take a few inches:madsmile:

So sorry for you guys and can't imagine the speed of it, when even animals lose out big time like the sloath and Koala's and roos of course!:(

That's terrible news Muffet. Can't imagine how the Firemen must be feeling when faced with such inferno's. They must be worn out. Brave men indeed!
Hope you get a break with the weather. It's been raining a lot here these last few weeks; wish we could export some your way.

I have heard from a very reliable source that some fire crews have been at it for 60 days straight with no break and no let up.

We in the West have had the hottest start to summer ever 40 degree days in Perth continuous, while up the Northwest where I go to Telfer it has already topped the hottest spot the other day with a mere 45 degrees celcius and Jan/Feb are the hottest months yet to come.

Easy to look from afar when you are not affected by these fires, but one would have thought there would be better fire fighting methods in place across the world when these fires break out, and solutions made, powder or whateve, that kill the breath out of them, in any weather conditions!!
Maybe even foam dispensers built within the sturctures of homes laying a blanket of foam down when they approach??
I know the RAF found foam when they needed to extuinquish aircraft fires, and they are an isolated target when you see these fires in forests where flames leap from tree to tree and cross roads................unbelievable. Hope all those firefighters come out of each fire safely.

The problem faced Gil is the fuel loading on the ground when I was working out the controlled burns at the power station I was at (Its located in the middle of a forest and its coal fired!) is fuel loading we worked on a 2.5 tonne fuel load per hectare as the max, then you have to have the right conditions ambient air & moisture plus wind direction and strength all contribute to a go/no go situation. There was a place in that actual shire where the power station is located where for some reason they cannot do reduction burns its fuel load was calculated some 4 years ago at 23 tonnes per hectare just a disaster waiting to happen.

I will tell you a story; I due to my position at the power station had to attend the shire emergency management crisis control and what would be done if things went south in the shire whatever the emergency, there were occasions where I mobilized some ERT crew and assets to assist the shire when local flooding became an issue for them but not leaving the power station at risk. Anyway at one of these meetings I decided to put the question to all the members present , the shire, the police, the army reserve, other coal mine reps would they come to the aid of the power station if we got swamped with a bush fire and we needed out side assets from the town.
(I could call in outside assets but they were 1-1.5 hours away) Well eff me the reply from the shire rep was its not a shire asset so no we will not send any help your way, I retorted it is a state asset your bound as local govt to assist, nope we wont come, I said fine just remember that power station can generate a 1/3rd of this states power needs (By this time I had red lined under my hat).
So I never went to another Shire LEMC meeting there in my tenure as the Fire Officer/ERT manager what a load of crock sh*t govt nob heads whose only concern is to how much they could crow and who would listen to them.......

I know theat bush fires are a regular occurrence in Australia; but I was wondering how long does it take to grow back, to the point where it becomes a risk area again?
Will you get a free season next year due to all that's been burnt this year?

Allot depends on the type of bush and the amount of trees and other bushes in that area the obviously the denser the forest then your burns are to be conducted on a regular basis due to the amount of leaf matter dropped by the trees etc at the station it was a rotational system with our scrub on site 1100 hectares on about a 2 year cycle for various zones obviously we had sparse areas where it would be around 5 yearly +- season dependent.

CALM our land management authority is given X amount to burn yearly I think last year in the southwest they had something like 200,000 hectares ear marked to burn off but due to the season they only accomplished 15% of that and in the past there has been some burns that got out of hand with property loss etc so they have to ensure everything is correct and the risks minimal.
That film we watch on the Australian crew they actually caught on camera a fire tornado it was not you small cockeyed Bob but a full blown funnel of fire going through the tree tops like Dantes Inferno it was a chilling sight and something I hope never to encounter in the flesh.

Cinders,
It almost begs the question, that perhaps those living in remote wooded areas should build a moat or a wood gap wide enough so flames can't jump and if they do a cleared out moat would stop it in its tracks with no vegetation to burn off!

hi working with a mate he told me his in laws have 4 blocks over near tabulum they have lost 2 1/2 of them the fire moved 25 km in 1 1/2 hours you would never control anything like that thumbs up to the rfs

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Originally Posted by 30Three

how long does it take to grow back, to the point where it becomes a risk area again?

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A good question. In eucalypt forests, you'll see regrowth in 2 years, as Cinders says, but the bulk of the scrub won't be back to 'healthy' status until at least 5 years. Around the 7-10 year mark the place is pretty much back to what it was, just not as tall. The undergrowth is the problem fuel and that springs up very quickly.

While damaging and dangerous, you must realise that the Australian bush needs fire to regenerate and thrive. The problem with man (and yes, the Aboriginals are included, despite their good land management practices) is that the imposed development and "conservation" foisted upon the countryside has buggered up a lot of the bush. When you don't cool burn an area in winter, then you run the risk of excess fuel load in summer. The outcome is very big fires. Do they occur naturally? Sometimes. But sadly we have b@$7@`ds here who think that lighting fires is a fun thing to do.

Generally considered a good thing to steer clear of, if you can.

As of this morning, NSW has lost 2.7million hectares, a lot of European Countries aren't that big.
All OZ states are currently battleing fires.
The Fires are spotting Embers up to several Kilometers in front of the main fires, the wind speeds have been averaging between 50-80 kph.and constantly changing direction.
The wind generated at the fire front is making it very near impossible for low level water bombing, so far the lads at my local airport have been bombing non stop for a month, planes are being pulled from service for maintainance as they are exceeding their hours, a rapid turnaround of servicing has all other tasks on hold, but we are beginning to lose the odd plane and chopper, so the extra downtime means less water dropped, it in itself a scarce resource in this never ending drought.

As for using foam, mate we are still fighting the Government over the contamination to the land and waterways around Military bases caused be the bloody stuff.

If you have followed the fires in California, it's the same, just larger fronts and inhospitable terrain.

Yep big action on the foam up at Pearce Air Base they even got Erin Brokavich in.

As for the fires Yanchep is coping a pasting lost a fuel station got it to a watch and act but it flared today and back to square one again with a super hot days forecast for the next four, today they measured the bitumen temp in the shade near a school in Perth 68.7 degrees Celsius thats hot because it radiates as well. Then late at night the heat has to go somewhere so muggy nights are hard to sleep in, I grew up in Perth and well remember those sweltering nights as a kid with a wet top sheet or sleeping on the back lawn with my brother and sisters I was the youngest. We even used to sleep with our front door open and sash windows up yeah try that nowdays....

I'm afraid muffet our states as well as the rest of Australia its going to be a very long and very hot summer.
I had noticed these last years have been bad for our country and have seriously thought when Banda Achae earth quake happened I read or heard somewhere it tilted our planet 1/2" from its axis since then the seasons like our summers have been like a blow torch and our rains hit and miss. The eastern states are in a dreadful bind with drought some young children 4-5 have never seen rain the farmers are in a desperate plight and the govt will loan them money well not to be a stick in the mud but we should stop all overseas aid and help our farmers. They should get the money for free the pollies could halve their wages that would be good with half going to the farmers primary industry they the pollies should go out and try and eat a mouthful of dirt and see how they like that. No Farmers = No food

My apologies for the rant Badger but its the same in every country on this planet apart from our N/S poles without primary industry you ain't got squat.......

Muffett,
Thanks for that mate, puts it in a nutshell. A very difficult one to cure easily, as there is no one solution.;)

Just can't get away from it.
Watching Cricket on the Tele, Test match in W.A, when the cameras pan away from the action and focus on a fire raging half a K from the grounds....poor buggers were playing in 40-50 degree heat as it was.

Got a quick refresher lesson on fighting fires yesterday, had washed my hair the night before, full of ash and crap....well guess what, clean dry hair and fire fronts don't mix.
Now I'm sporting a hat ring burn mark that looks worse than it really is, I guess I will be content just pumping Avgas and retardant for a while.
Fires are not the right place for a bloke in his 70's.

Stay Safe:thup:

This is Australia at the present with the fire situation across our continent;

"This pretty well sums it up. A couple of days ago the count for NSW alone was 3 million hectares"

Listening to a worn out Fire Chief who reckons many were started deliberately!!
I hope they get those responsible and chuck them in jail for Christmas and they have certainly ruined a lot of peoples times!

In the middle of it here in South Eastern Australia at the moment. Lost power for 4 days and only got phone / internet access back on around 5am yesterday. All of the main roads are closed due to fire activity, the smoke is overwhelming. Took Christmas off this year, will celebrate when and if rain arrives

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Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

Listening to a worn out Fire Chief who reckons many were started deliberately!!
I hope they get those responsible and chuck them in jail for Christmas and they have certainly ruined a lot of peoples times!

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Personally I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be a terrorist attack..... :dunno:

Actually, that perspective has been looked at in detail, just not aired publicly in order to avoid panic....not that panic does not already exist.

AUSTRALIA's DUNKIRK.
Picking them off the beaches, surrounded by fire....Oz Navy put to work.

There doesn't seem to be any let up for you guys in Australia. It's back on the news in Europe now after being off for a week or two. Looks like tha apocalypse in some areas.
Surprised there does not seem to be any international aid for your fire fighters.
It seems if some kid's get stuck in a cave that half the world turns up to help; looks like you guy's could do with some serious help!
Stay safe!

I think it needs more money ploughed into air fire assets on a national scale so they can be used right around a country as big as Australia. It is sadly a very unique geographical location, and international helpers could only be effective for a short period of time against this massive task.
Even if the whole Australian Army was mobilised it couldn't train them up for safety etc quick enough to be useful. I do think there needs to be a national aviation response like they have in Spain.
There fire dumping aircraft have been going for years but still extuinquish their blazes, but of course nothing like the Aussie bush fires!

Fire at Santa Margarita, Spain, with fire fighting planes refilling in the bay at Puente Mayorca - YouTube

Starting to get a bit personal now.....extended family lost a house down south, had to let the Alpaca's loose to fend for themselves.
They are giving me a spell, younger bloke on the pumps, much as I appreciate the rest, I feel a bit frustrated looking on.

One problem that seems to be overlooked is that Eucalypts are, in general, "fire climax" species. Their seed pods are so tough that it takes a "warm-over by a "moderate" and fast-moving fire to crack them. The passing ground fire in such circumstances is not hot enough to damage mature trees but it simply turns the competing species, i.e. undergrowth, weeds, etc to ash.

The "cooked" seed pods, in their bed of ash, will germinate at the next shower of rain, which is often within days of some of these fires; apparently something to do with all that smoke (particulate matter) aggregating water droplets in the air and so on.

Where it all gets ugly is if there is a LOT of undergrowth and / or litter on the forest floor. Then, the fire's "Time over target" increases as does the temperature of the fire front. Most eucalypts can handle a bit of "cooking, but only up to a point before the outer centimetre or so of the tree does not literally start to boil.That outer layer is where all the traffic of water, nutrients etc travels; destroy it and tree dies. A fast-moving fire can completely envelop a Eucalypts and within days, the tree will be sprouting leaves from all manner of places; epicormic growth. This enables it to continue to photosynthesize and carry on..

Apart from killing mature trees, the other huge problem with high-temperature "floor" fires is that the heat also goes DOWN. This excessive heat penetrating a couple of feet destroys all of the nutrients and "micro-bugs" that process the soil nutrients. This, in turn starves the tree in its survival mode. It also introduces two more problems. Firstly, high-temperature ground fires can often ignite large root systems under the ground and these can smoulder invisibly for days. One of the consequences of that phenomenon is "low-density" ground. What looks like ash-covered ground can be a deadly trap; like walking onto super-heated talcum powder. People have died or been horribly injured in recently burned-out forests, whilst stepping onto the wrong patch of ground. Then it rains, usually briefly, and a huge amount of "cooked" topsoil is simply washed into the waterways, making a huge mess of them and generally unfit for surviving water creatures or even thirsty surviving animals livestock / native animals.

Similar damage happens in the huge North-American Coniferous forest fires.

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Originally Posted by muffett.2008

No fire rated safe helps over here.
The heat is so intense, fueled by Eucalyptus and pine trees.. the oils in the timber begin to create vapor and when it ignites, blows the door off the safe.(haven't you watched that video?)

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What video is that?

---------- Post added at 08:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:01 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by 30Three

Surprised there does not seem to be any international aid for your fire fighters.

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Not exactly accurate. I do know that there are firefighters from the US and New Zealand. Australian's were her in the Californa fire my son was working with them when he was in the National Guard.

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Originally Posted by usabaker

What video is that?

---------- Post added at 08:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:01 PM ----------



Not exactly accurate. I do know that there are firefighters from the US and New Zealand. Australian's were her in the Californa fire my son was working with them when he was in the National Guard.

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We've sent firefighters from here in Canada, including some from our small eastern province. We had help when we had several monster fires out west the last few years, and we don't forget our friends.

As an aside, that amphibious water-bomber shown in the photo above is a Canadian plane.

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Originally Posted by muffett.2008

Starting to get a bit personal now.....extended family lost a house down south, had to let the Alpaca's loose to fend for themselves.
They are giving me a spell, younger bloke on the pumps, much as I appreciate the rest, I feel a bit frustrated looking on.

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Muffett. I'm sorry to hear things are rough on your side of the pond. I lived in Santa Rosa California at the time and in October of 2017 we had a wild fire that burned up the northern part of the city. In all it was 5,600 buildings, home and 36 thousand of acres of land with it. With in about 4 days there were New South Wales fire trucks and Australian fire fighters here in the city fighting the fire. For that i will always be grateful to Australia and hope we can repay the favor in some way. I know your frustration and I'm sorry that you, your loved ones and your country are going though this.

The heat during our fire was between 2250F to 2500F (1371 C) If a fire that flashed over and exposed a safe to that heat for a few minutes, that would be one things. But entire neighborhood burning down surrounding the safe, that is a significant amount of radiant heat. A handful of safes survived and those were made by the same manufacturer and not inexpensive. The maker touted that fact on their website but most safes contained heat damaged steel, melted aluminum and ash.