Howdy Folks, I was hoping someone could help me out with the .308 Winchester for Sierra MatchKing Boat Tail Hollow Point 30 Cal 168 Grain Model: 2200 Load data. Its been awhile I guess but I thought I remember being able to download load data from their website but I can't find any.
I have the Hornady and Lyman load data books but wanted to take a gander on what Sierra was saying. Thank is advance!
Bill
Attachment 104275
Here you go
Hi Jim, Thank you for your help. The link took me to an odd site, definitely not a Sierra site. Noticed though, the data is for 30-06, not 308Win.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Just before I got your message I did find it on AccurateShooter in the Serria308Win.pdf
Thank again!
Thank you Jonzie :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonzie
Anytime glad to help
You do not need bullet maker specific data. Loading is done by the bullet weight.
Data from every source/manual will be slightly different anyway. Load data in manuals reflect averages of all the loads tested using a given powder, with the exact components, test barrel length/rifling twist and environmental conditions on the day of the test.
For example, Hodgdon's site used a 168 grain Sierra HPBT bullet for the tests on their site. The Start load was 41.5 of IMR4064, giving 2518 FPS, out of a 1:12", 24" barrel. Your .pdf claims 39.7 grains of IMR4064 gave 'em exactly 2500 FPS out of a 1 in 10, 26" barreled Savage 12VSS. With no Start or Max load at all. Who's right? They both are. Different tests.
I wouldn't use that Sierra .pdf data though. Far too vague. Not that it's unsafe though. It's just not complete.
Oh and I used IMR4064 in my example because it works really, really well with 168 grain Match bullets in either .308 or .30-06.
Hi Sunray, I am aware that I don't need maker specific data, I was just curious as to what Serria load data was saying. I just bought my son a Mauser with a 1:11 twist 22" barrel 308W and since I have only loaded for 1:10 and 1:12 longer than 22" barrels I wanted to compare loads (also puled data from Vihtavuori, Hodgdon, and Alliant). I did note that all Serrias numbers were the furthest off when compared but they used a 26" barrel as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunray
I'm looking for a starting load that will fully burn in a 22" barrel and gives 'good' results out to 300 as I work uploads. Thank you for the help and the IMR4064 recommendation.
How fast do you want to go?
My "tree-ware" Sierra manual, 5th edition, 2003, lists a lot of loads, one of which uses good-old 3031. The test rifle was a Savage 12VSS, 26", 1:10" twist.
39.5 grains of 3031 got them to 2600 FPS and with "normal" pressure. 41.1 gn of 3031 is listed as MAX.
TWO reasons for that, I suspect: Pressure signs on the fired brass and the fact that it gets fairly tricky to get that amount of powder in a .308Win case and then stuff in a long-ish bullet and seat it such that it will run through all magazines. AND fit the throat of a "standard" .308 chamber. I also suspect the 155 Palma was invented to specifically work within the constraints o the .308Win / 7.62 NATO ammunition AND rifle specifications. Also, be aware that some of the longer, "slinkier" bullets may NOT stabilize sufficiently when fired from a 1:12" twist .308 Win, because even in a 26" barrel, the muzzle velocity achievable may not provide a sufficient spin rate.
The 168gn Sierra in a .30-06 can be safely driven to 2800 fps with a variety of powders.
Barrel length, chamber throating, case capacity, etc. all come into critical play when you start trying to "push the envelope".
Consider reading a little more carefully, noting each page includes -Quote:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/tact...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Sunray https://www.milsurps.com/images/tact...post-right.png . . . With no Start or Max load at all. . .
I wouldn't use that Sierra .pdf data though. Far too vague. Not that it's unsafe though. It's just not complete. . .
Quote:
INDICATES MAXIMUM LOAD – USE CAUTION
LOADS LESS THAN MINIMUM CHARGES SHOWN ARE NOT RECOMMENDED.
I saw that and tried in vain to correct it...Quote:
Originally Posted by usabaker
It would be above 2600 FPS Sierra has rated their matching BTHP at .462 @ 2600 fps and above. I'll be developing hunting rounds on Hornady 165gr GMX haven't set in on a powder yet, but might just load RL-17 since a have a pound of it already and try the IMR4064 to see what works best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz
If your trying to get a max burn the ADI AR2208 (IMR 4064 equivalent) may be a bit slow, your better off using a faster powder like AR 2206H I use in my APRS(Ace Precision Rifle Systems in Australia) .308 Remington custom build which has a 25" Kreiger match grade barrel I have had the rifle for a fair while and have not changed the load data supplied by the factory it came from.
I use 168gn Hornady A-Max due to this projectiles devastating wound capabilities accounting for a fair few foxes out to 400M have found out to their peril, I use Lapua brass, uniform the primer pockets, anneal the case necks with an AMP machine and use BR2 primers behind 42 grains of AR2206H.
Another powder to use is AR8208 its also faster than 2208 (My wife reloads this powder for her Barnards behind 155.5gn Berger VLD's) it is a fine granule not a ball powder and meters really well from thrower and electric dispenser.
Anyway to prove the load works I've enclosed a few targets shot off a bench with a bi-pod no rear bag @100M 25 months apart the flyer is me, but shows what the load and rifle are capable of the one at .3 MOA this rifle can maintain all the time the only limiting factor is me.
As always though with all reloads start 10% under and work up I am not responsible for use of this data by anyone.
"...in a 22" barrel..." That'd pretty much be any load. 22" is the original barrel length for the .308. Smokeless isn't dependent on barrel length for it burning.
The twist won't change the velocity much if at all. The twist is about stabilizing the bullet. A 1 in 10 will do that as well as a 1 in 12. SA Inc "Loaded" M1A's have 1 in 11.
Hodgdon's site data was tested with a 1 in 12(Standard M-14 twist), 24" barrel.
It was about optimizing the gases. Depending on the rate of burn, too fast can cause pressure jumps and too slow and bullet will exit the barrel without fulling burning the powder. You can experience the later using IMR 4350, it was great until you got close to capacity in the casing then you were just spewing powder out of the muzzle. Does make nice night pyrotechnics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunray
Perhaps counter-intuitively, we actually see a higher proportion of powder burn as the charge, pressure, and temperature increase. Put simply, with lighter loads of slow powder, it never gets hot enough to burn well.
QuickLOAD output gives an idea of the dynamic involved. (Focus on "Burnt %" column)
Cartridge : .308 Win.
Bullet : .308, 168, Hornady BTHP Natl M 30501
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch or 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch or 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 4350
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.381% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Chg Vel. Enrgy Pmax Pmuz Burnt B_Time
% --- % - Grns fps ft.lbs psi - psi - % -- ms
-23.8 75 32.00 1697 1075 17455 4541 65.9 1.832
-21.4 77 33.00 1748 1140 18650 4777 67.5 1.781
-19.0 80 34.00 1800 1208 19931 5016 69.1 1.731
-16.7 82 35.00 1852 1279 21302 5257 70.7 1.683
-14.3 85 36.00 1905 1354 22770 5500 72.3 1.636
-11.9 87 37.00 1959 1431 24334 5744 73.8 1.591
-09.5 89 38.00 2013 1511 26032 5989 75.4 1.546
-07.1 92 39.00 2068 1595 27845 6234 76.9 1.503
-04.8 94 40.00 2123 1681 29789 6478 78.4 1.461
-02.4 96 41.00 2179 1771 31880 6721 79.9 1.419
+00.0 99 42.00 2236 1864 34128 6962 81.3 1.379
+02.4 101 43.00 2293 1961 36548 7199 82.8 1.340
IMR 4350 is your equivalent to our AR 2209 and thats a fairly slow powder, I don't have my quickload program installed at present as comp crashed but will reload it soon and do the calcs for IMR 4895 from the top of my head for the load I am using AR2206H think I am at about 98% burn the load Para's put up your throwing allot of gravel out the muzzle in unburnt powder I would not use AR 2209 (IMR4350 H4350 H414) in my 308 its too slow.
This is awesome data! You are right "counter-intuitively" until seeing this data I never really looked at it from this aspect. Interesting indeed. I have never heard of QuickLOAD; just looked it up I guess if I were a percision shooter this software would be invaluable But $155.00 is a lot of game meat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parashooter
Thank you for the information and a new way of looking at loads.
Hi Cinders, I stopped using IMR 4350 back in the early 90's because of the powder waste I was noticing from my muzzle and my conversion from LEE to RCBS. I started using it because back in the 80's that's what LEE was recommending and providing load data for.Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
For my new loads (for my son's rifle that I started this tread on) I have purchased from the input I have from y'all on this forum and reading I've done on non-lead elsewhere:
Hodgdon H4895
IMR 4064
Barnes LRX .308 175Gr Boattail bullets (For Hunting Only)
Hornady .308 Cal. 165 GMX Bullets (For Hunting Only)
Sierra MatchKing BTHP 30 Cal 168 Grain (Target and Testing the Rifle)
I'm going to run up a number of loads to see what his rifle likes best
Thanks for the help again
Bill
I think we will all agree there is no shortage of honest help in this site as its poor form to let some one struggle when we have been down that road and found the solution/s.
I will say that my AMP annealing unit I use is the way of things as brass does get work and fire hardened and this machine has made all the difference to obtaining consistent neck tension, I anneal every firing now on all my calibers
That's what I love about this forum and the people in it. Even if the topic is not strictly MILSURP every one is willing to give help and advice. I have yet to be flamed on this forum for asking questions that others might feel mundane. I am truly thankful for all of you here.Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
The AMP is way outside what I can afford. I've actually started on an annealing machine build. I went to the 2nd hand store and bought a used Canon laser printer. I just got done breaking it down and pulling out all the goodies I will need to build my machine. The printer has the DC motors, control circuits, power supply, gears, and shafts I needed. I'm working the electronics right now to figure out what is what on the boards. I was pleased to find a lot of sensors that I can make use of if I can figure out the control circuits and by-pass the microprocessor, ROM, and some of the control modules. If not I'll have to build three simple timing circuits to connect to the DC motors.
The first step will just be a simple shaft that rotates and indexes with the proper timing. Once I get that down I can work on making a continuous feed version.
Attachment 104517
Keep us posted so others may learn from what you discover Bill.
I was extremely low tech when I first started annealing using a shell holder a battery drill and a canned gas burner I sure junked allot of cases as I went by the blue ring that appears when annealed correctly (303 cases) its only a split second from good to junk I got it fairly close but the results more often than not were not the best.
So saved for a year and got the AMP machine as when your feeding 3 F class rifles, a full bore rifle, a 308 field class rifle and 5 303's all banging away throwing lead the cases just pile up.:eek:
Beware of Accurate 2200 powder. Do not deviate from published data by Accurate. This was originally a surplus powder for the 7.62x39. Do not exceed publish information on it as the pressure can jump with just a small amount of powder increase. I used it to load .223 with a 55 gr FMJ bullet. I was at 21 grains when I started to get primer failures in my SP1 Colt. Nice holes in the Winchester primers. The load was 2 grains UNDER published max. So start with starting loads and increase slowly.
Thank you for the heads-up. I've bought Hodgdon H4895 and IMR 4064 so start working uploads using Hornady Brass, 168 gr. BTHP MatchKings and Barnes 175 gr. LRX bullets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill