(T) Micrometer Question...

So after a long wait that got delayed several times on my end I finally have my faux-(T) in hand. At this point the only thing missing is the rear micrometer sight. I know that the (T)’s had their battle sight ground down for scope clearance, and I understand that the sight was further milled to allow the bolt to be removed without removing the scope. True? If someone can tell me, how was the sight altered to allow the removal of the bolt? If possible can someone who has a real sight post some pics of what was done?

I know someone will say not to destroy a No4 micrometer sight... Don’t worry, Numrich is selling No5 leafs with the battle sight already off. A No5 will work just as well, since it’s for visual show and not actual use.

See pics this is straight out of Peters book my T does not have the mod so no use picturing the sight.

On thing I gleaned from Peters book going by my rifles scope number as the AK & S MkIII No 32 was introduced in Oct '44 at 1600 my scopes number is 16684 places the build of my rifle as it still has its original scope at Dec '1944 so in a way your request lead me to that.

On reading Peters book along time ago (Reading copy) my rifle and scope were involved in screw & dowel testing so that is pretty cool that in this part of the world I have an authenticated rifle and scope that were used in trials to overcome the loosening issues they had all proven by their serials in Peter & Ians fine book.:thup:

It is all detailed on pages 81 and 82 of, "An Armourer's Perspective: .303 No.4 (T) Sniper Rifle and the Holland and Holland Connection" By one Peter Laidler avec Ian Skennerton.

The "battle" aperture is filed / ground off the leaf, to allow suitably low mounting of the scope.

With an "unmodified" back-sight leaf, you have to stand it up to remove the bolt. This is a problem with scoped rifles.

The back-sight leaf and the cursor slide are "relieved" so that, during bolt removal, the bolt-head can run freely out of the body with the sight "lowered" and the No. 32 scope still mounted.

On page 81 it is also noted that, to reduce "shine", the leaf could be Parkerized by unit armourers.

I think H&H removed the battle apertures by milling, but I've seen plenty of refurbished rifles that bore replacement rear sights (usually of Faz manufacture), where it looked as though the aperture boss was cut off & the stub filed up neatly.

Re the relieving on the underside of the cursor; ideally milled for neatness, but if you can handle a file with reasonable precision it is quite possible to do a very creditable job with judicious use of the curved face of a half round file of the appropriate blade width.

Having said all that, the vast majority of 4T rear sights were not so modified, so, especially if it's for display only, I'd save myself the hassle.

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Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz

...snip...

With an "unmodified" back-sight leaf, you have to stand it up to remove the bolt. This is a problem with scoped rifles.

The back-sight leaf and the cursor slide are "relieved" so that, during bolt removal, the bolt-head can run freely out of the body with the sight "lowered" and the No. 32 scope still mounted.
...snip...

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ONLY the base block should be relieved, do not touch the cursor slide. I have seen a number of sights which have been destroyed by "well meaning" owners attempting to "improve" their rifles.

In several hundred rifles, I have NEVER (not 1 time yet) seen this modification on an original No4T (except by people who read or heard of the mod. in PL/IS book).

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The sight shown in the first two photo's was modded by PL himself in about 1992. He did it for me when I told him I wanted to put together a L42 lookalike (there had been no L42's released back then). I provided the rear sight. He has done it by hand & whilst the sight leaf has had most meat removed, he has also skimmed a little from the rear surface of the cursor to ensure reliable removal of the bolt without it snagging. I have done a number along similar lines over the years since.

The final photo is just to reassure any forummers who might be concerned that I have a tendency to bugger up cursors. I got in a few spares just in case....

I would agree that the mod is rarely seen in practice. I suspect that it may have been something that PL himself did, & possibly a few other armourer pals, on an ad-hoc basis. But it certainly doesn't seem to have extended to most rifles, even L42's. When I have done them it has been pretty much only because people have asked me to.

P.S. Sorry for the rather dark pix, but taken in a hurry. I'm cooking dinner tonight.

Peter taught me how to do them too. It does require some removal of metal from the slide. I think there was a jig for grinding them in the L42 days but i don't think I've ever seen one so modified on an original No.4T or an L42.

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Originally Posted by amadeus76

A No5 will work just as well, since it’s for visual show and not actual use.

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Not needed, I think I have a #4 micrometer here I can send...now, do we go to jail for me sending it across the US/Canada border? Brian Dick would know...offhand.

Agree that only the battle sight needs to be removed by milling or careful filing.

In all of the dozen or so No. 4 (T) rifles that I have or have owned, or many more examined, only one (1) had the modification of filing away under side to allow the bolt to pass while the sight was in the down position. I agree that you should simply ignore this feature.

That’s exactly what I’m looking for, thanks!! Tho based on what many are saying it isn’t necessary or worth the possibility of messing up...

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

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The sight shown in the first two photo's was modded by PL himself in about 1992. He did it for me when I told him I wanted to put together a L42 lookalike (there had been no L42's released back then). I provided the rear sight. He has done it by hand & whilst the sight leaf has had most meat removed, he has also skimmed a little from the rear surface of the cursor to ensure reliable removal of the bolt without it snagging. I have done a number along similar lines over the years since.

The final photo is just to reassure any forummers who might be concerned that I have a tendency to bugger up cursors. I got in a few spares just in case....

I would agree that the mod is rarely seen in practice. I suspect that it may have been something that PL himself did, & possibly a few other armourer pals, on an ad-hoc basis. But it certainly doesn't seem to have extended to most rifles, even L42's. When I have done them it has been pretty much only because people have asked me to.

P.S. Sorry for the rather dark pix, but taken in a hurry. I'm cooking dinner tonight.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Not needed, I think I have a #4 micrometer here I can send...now, do we go to jail for me sending it across the US/Canada border? Brian Dick would know...offhand.

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Thank you and I would assume that you’d be legally safe as I’ve bought rear sights and other items sent for the U.K. in the past. However, I have a couple No4 micrometer sights already, I just don’t want to grind them down if I don’t have to in case I need them for future rifles. That’s why a pre-milled No5 Sight makes more sense in light of it never being used for shooting... And even if it is in the future, like with all my No4 rifles, I’ll zero at 200 and then learn my actual click adjustments for farther out and not rely on the marks designed for a Mk VII round I’m not using.

I try to find Mk.1 sights with crushed battle apertures for modification to No.4T spec. when possible.

Regarding imports to the USA: It's perfectly legal to import up to $100 USD wholesale value without a Form 6 import permit. Any value exceeding the $100 limit requires an approved ATF Form 6 import permit. This applies to all firearm components including woodwork. Spare barrels, bolts and breech blocks for surplus military arms are banned from importation altogether.

Regarding exports from the USA: Component parts other than those I just mentioned with a wholesale value of $100 or less are exempt from DDTC export licensing but still require lodging via the automated export system, (AES), and receipt of an international transaction number, (ITN), with US CBP by an ITAR registered exporter in order to stay within the parameters of the law.

In regards to Brian Dicks post, how sad it is that collectors and enthusiasts of WW weapons systems have been reduced to the ranks of criminals in the eyes of the powers that be just because of the undesirables in this world, it is nigh on impossible to stop them obtaining their instruments for foul deeds.
Yes they have made weapons harder to obtain but that's only good for the black market prices going rate for a wheel gun is @$5-6K according to Channel 9 news here in West Au.
But hey all they have to do is to go to a place (deleted) and there are rows and rows of them for sale there as the London Bridge episodes have shown us, also there is always the tide against us in trying to take our collections or weapons off of us.

Don't be fooled. They don't give a shite about stopping crime. The progressives in ALL of our governments want to stop commerce in firearms and components completely other than for LE and military use. There is a plan here in the USA to move much of what we deal in from the ITAR to EAR which is controlled by US Department of Commerce. The licensing requirements are just as stringent but it's being made out as a huge relaxation of restrictions which is an outright lie. One Demoncrat senator named Bob Menendez in New Jersey is holding the transition up again. He did it last February and has done it again in November. I've been dealing with all of these entities for 22 years and DoC, (who control the EAR), is an excellent branch of our government who work hard to make it more efficient for us to do business with our cross border friends. Unfortunately, DoS, (ITAR), charge a huge yearly fee and do their best to throw wrenches into the machine every chance they get. It's pure, deep state politics and arrogance. A real shame. Fingers crossed that we will eventually get the transition in place.