This was passed down to me. My father said it came into the family through the old US Navy Yard in Philadelphia. Stamped 1895.
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This was passed down to me. My father said it came into the family through the old US Navy Yard in Philadelphia. Stamped 1895.
Used to be a rifle...but still looks nice. How's the barrel? Usually they're about perfect, that's why they hunted and were seen good enough to cut down.
Shoots good. very smooth action.
'sendero' - Neat family heirloom!
Actually, your Krag's receiver, (#26336 or #26836?), marked 1895 (and not model 1895 or model 1896), started its service as an early U.S. model 1896 carbine.
It now has the later type of carbine stock, that has the long forearm. These stocks were developed to make refurbished model 1896 carbines look more like the model 1899 carbine configuration. Your rear-sight appears to be a '1902 carbine sight'.
Your present front sight is a crude commercial replacement. It looks similar to ones turned out by Stokes Kirk company in Philadelphia.
It is possible your Krag was assembled from surplus parts by Stokes Kirk.
Attachment 104415Attachment 104414
That might make sense. I had gone to a big milsurp and antique gun show two weeks ago and they had many krags. I noticed that the base of my rear sight is different. The others gradually sloped up or had steps while mine is more of a hump. SN is 26836
'sendero' - I think your rear-sight may be made up from parts: a Krag 'model 1898 rifle-sight' base and a 'model 1902 sight' leaf.
Springfield did not combine these sight parts, but, surplus dealers did.
A picture of your rear sight with the leaf 'up', so that the Spring is visible, would allow identification.
(1898 and 1902 sight bases are similar, but, used different 'flat' springs and the heights are different).
BTW - The carbine bases for 1898 and 1902 sights were stamped with a "C" on the side.
FWIW - U.S. Krags #26808 and #26862 were documented model 1896 carbines. Your number falls mid-way in-between.
There's a first for me, I've never seen a carbine with the front sight replaced...like that. Couldn't imagine why? Assembled from parts? Sold off and stripped and reassembled?Quote:
Originally Posted by butlersrangers
Maybe the original carbine barrel had a rough bore.
Stokes Kirk describes their (No. 399 D) "carbines" having new rifle barrels, cut to 22 inches and their banded front-sight installed.
Makes perfect sense. So, a carbine receiver changed to something...else.Quote:
Originally Posted by butlersrangers
I have Stokes/Sedley school rifle of the same vintage, 1894 action body ~20,9xx serial number. Just located south of you in Bucks county.
There were a ton of them made in the WWI era, the catalog shown was a 1918 edition. A lot of them were used by the various guard organization in WWI, as real rifles were in short supply. A lot of them were sold cheap to the users at the end of the conflict, so it is quite possible your grandfather was a gate guard, member of the state guard, bridge guard, etc and got it thorough that method.
The site is marked up to 20 if that means anything.
Pipersville.. I spent some years living in Upper Black Eddy. Dated a girl in Perkasie as a young man.
There's a ray of light...very interesting idea. Would make sense too...Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick303
Here is a short mention of the WWI organization, but not much data. more on WWII
Pennsylvania State Guard - Wikipedia
Here is where you can type in your relatives name and see if it comes up as a state guard man from 1918 to 1920
https://archon.klnpa.org/psa/?p=coll...olcard&id=8760
There are more records and organizations involved in home defense than the state guard: here are the state archives, you might find a lead there.
WWI Online :: Pennsylvania State Archives
I would document what you can find, in writing before it is all lost. Thing is family firearms have a history of losing their association or having the story get messed up over time. Have the documentation and it will stay a family heirloom a lot longer.
For example, in my family is a Belgium muzzle loading screw-off double barreled percussion pistol from circa 1851~1855. It has family history, but it is forgotten, the last person who knew something about it died in 1993, and his widow had no recollection of what the association was. The best guess is it was from an extended family from Indiana circa civil war era, but no one knows.
Sendero's rear-sight is a 'bitsa' put together, unofficially, from surplus parts. His sight is quite functional, but, did not come from Springfield Armory in its current form.
The base is from a 'model 1898 rifle sight' for the "hotter" 2,200 f.p.s. (220 grain projectile) ammo. This cartridge was 'short lived' and condemned, when U.S. Krag bolt-heads began developing cracks. (The Ordnance Department returned to the previous 2,000 f.p.s. (220 grain projectile) .30-40 cartridge.
The model 1898 sight bases had too low an elevation-ramp for the slower regulation cartridge, so they were scrapped and got into the surplus market. (The 'top' or Leaf part was saved and most were altered and used in a variation of the model 1902 sight).
The model 1902 sight-base has a higher elevation-ramp and uses a different shape of spring for the Leaf.
BTW - All 1898 and 1902 sight Leaves are graduated to "20" (or 2,000 yards) with the same spacing of increments.
The front and rear sights of Sendero's family Krag make it real likely it came from Stokes Kirk or Sedgley's Philadelphia shops.
Attachments: 1. model 1898 rifle sight. 2. model 1898 rifle base. 3. A 1902 sight with leaf officially altered from 1898 leaf.
Attachment 104478Attachment 104479Attachment 104480
Frederick303: How were you able to date my "Stokes Kirk - catalog #27" to 1918?
Lots of the old 'gun company' catalogs lack dates.
(Thanks in advance - I did not know its actual date range).
p.s. Sheet metal 'banded' front-sights show up on many Krags adapted for Hunting. The Stokes Kirk 'Special Krag Front Sight' is the likely source.
Attachment 104507
Quote:
Originally Posted by butlersrangers
Quote:
Originally Posted by butlersrangers
Well, it seems I made a mistake. I have a copy of the 1918 catalog and it is the same or very similar to # 27, but likely a wee bit earlier. Prices on the Krag are the same.
If interested Cornell publications does a reprint of the 1918 catalog. Same cover as yours but above the canoe is a big "1918" in black. Now the normal arms collector might have missed this, but being somewhat Sherlock Holmes like I managed to deduce that it was actually the date of the catalog, the key being the title and number were to be read together as "Catalogue 1918"
Being close to the site of Stokes and Sedgley (one county north) these arms have some local interest, when I first joined my present rifle club in the mid 1980s I ran across some fellows who recall buying arms/items from W. Stokes, though they had another address by WWII era. In the 1950s the Krag was the rifle of use in Bucks county PA for the less prosperous hunter. Some very nice sported Krags have made their appearance over the years, sadly they are now pretty rare but in the 1990s you could hardly swing a dead cat at a local gun show without hitting one or more of these arms. Don't ask me how I know that or the name of the cat.
Heck here one of the gun shops traces it existence back to a shop owned by "old man" (In the 1940s) Menninger who had a gun shop in the 1930s in Doylestown PA. Had a relative who had at least 2 l Krags from him in the 1948~1949 era.
I did find a reference to the catalog #18 being published May 1926
there was a Number 19 catalog and a a #20 and 20B
The firm lasted until sometime around the Bicentennial (1976), I seem to recall reading it was around 100 years old when it finally closed, but had very little left by then.
I wonder if they still have any of those muzzle and sight protectors for 5 cents?Quote:
Originally Posted by butlersrangers
---------- Post added at 06:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:47 AM ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick303
thank you sir for posting these links.
Some listed eBay items (I saved pictures of) from years past.
IIRC - The "Stokes Kirk - Krag Bayonet sign" was located in the Philippines. (I thought it highly 'suspect', but cool).
I love ephemera items containing Krags and thought I would share - Merry Christmas to All!
Attachment 104553Attachment 104554Attachment 104555Attachment 104556
That's an interesting carbine you have there! It's hard to tell how it got that way and what it was originally. It doesn't look as if it spent the 1898 rainy season in Cuba or PR, and the front sight is not something it would have picked up in an arsenal on land or a shipboard gun locker. If the barrel is good you have a fine hunting rifle
jn