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I recently acquired a Webley and contacted Richard Milner about it. The Webley day book entry indicates it was sold to Holland & Holland in 1904. I contacted them about it but haven't heard anything back. Does anyone know if H&H kept their records or releases such information? It would be very interesting to know who purchased it, at least initially.
Thx
Ed
"...kept their records or releases such information?..." Probably not to either. However, not asking will guarantee no info. H&H apparently changed owners just after W.W. II so 100 plus year old records just may not exist.
Webley & Scott quit making handguns in 1979 too.
As per my original post, I have asked, but haven't heard anything. According to their website (on which they sell bespoke clothes as well as a top of the line Land Rover with Holland & Holland badging......) they still sell guns. I did find a reference on Youtube to their collection which houses their various patent drawings, examples of their work and also all their ledgers and bills, so they do have some documentation at least. That of course doesn't mean that they share it, or will even answer my query. However, nothing ventured nothing gained.....
Ed
We used to send apprentices or new T/A's to the tool store to ask for an item called "A long weight" (wait) you maybe in for one however they may surprise you by actually answering your question we will see......
Another we used to do was the same except the request was "For wooden welding rods.".........or "Striped Paint you know the half black/white type, fast drying too." off you go!
I am sure some of you armourers and trades people out there have some stories as well.
In the crane game we had skyhooks a newbie dogman or crane chaser would ask for a lift to which we the operator would reply "No can do bloke" - "But its important they are waiting"...... "Well we are waiting for the right cloud"
......Eh?........ "You see we need the right type of cloud to hang the skyhook off of to do the lift now run off will you......." what rotters we were........!
Cinder's, a few more apprentice job's: getting a spare bubble for the spirit level, a bucket of steam, a hammer for bending glass. etc etc;
That sort of crap was still going on when I did my apprenticeship years ago. Nowadays, when we're desperate to get young people into trades, we can't afford to drive them away with that sort of juvenile workplace bullying. It's still a problem in some places. mostly in unionized shops where it's difficult to take any corrective action against the old-timers. Private concerns have a hard time making a profit as it is, so they can't afford to waste valuable man-hours on practical jokes like left-handed screwdrivers. Our apprentices come into the shop to learn, not provide brainless entertainment for a bunch of lazy old lags.
"...We used to send apprentices..." When I worked in bars, long ago, I sent a bus boy for a bucket of steam. There was a tap on the ceiling in the staff crapper somebody, that wasn't me, had labeled as a "Steam Tap". The guy came back saying he couldn't find it. Told him to ask the manager to show him. Manager came by about a half hour later and said something to me about sex and travel. Sunday's were usually slow.
"...we're desperate to get young people into trades..." That's entirely due to the assorted manufacturers, like the car makers, etc, absolutely refusing to train anybody. That's not new either. They were told, repeatedly, 40 years ago, us Baby Boomers were going to retire one day. The companies all said "Training is not our job. It's the Government's job." Now, those same companies are whining. What they're not saying, and neither are the assorted social workers going on about things they know nothing of, is that they don't want a new guy. They want tradesmen with 5 to 10 years experience. And it's experience working, not volunteer experience.
And the Unions aren't any better. They think apprentices are taking jobs away from the other union plugs.
We have contacted Holland and Holland some years ago about a Webley WG Model 89 .476 (2013). This was their reply 'Unfortunately with items like this where we retailed them, there were no records kept of the specification or the details as they were simply bought in and retailed."
Hope this is of help
Thanks for a reply which is actually germaine to the question being asked! I was hoping I might find out something about the history of this Fosbery but sounds like probably not! Oh well, it will just remain a mystery, but I will post if I get a reply from them.Quote:
Originally Posted by old rockape
Ed
There is a distinct difference to having a good leg pull and workplace bullying trust me I know the ropes and never made it personal or put anyone at risk from injury or getting upset if they came back and said they did not have the rods, weights, paint or the cloud we said thats fine we will carry on. We all ended up having a laugh once you've worked in my industry like I have 40+ years you soon work out who can take a bit of fun and those that are just to serious and make their working life a chore.
uh-huh....Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
I had heard that H+H lost much of their old records in a fire
This has been my experience with H&H as well. Some of the old firms are great about these types of inquiries - Rigby, Watson Bros, Westley Richards but H&H isn't one of them. i suspect there are records but they don't want to be bothered.Quote:
Originally Posted by old rockape
A cursory google search reveals numerous references to H&H sales ledgers and to photos of pages, extracts etc.; some of which suggest records from the 1880s to at least 1914. Perhaps the service is available, but only to those who pay enough, often enough?