Printable View
Hello, this is my first post concerning my Lithgow No.1 Mk III*
I have found much info on my rifle here, but I am not clear about the numbers on the knox. It seems to me that it was re barreled possibly?
The date stamped on the receiver is 1942 and 1941 on the butt stock.
See the attached photos.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks, Richard
The barrel manufacture date is February 1959. I think the 4/60 may be the date it was rebarreled. Maybe our Aussie friends can elaborate?
Thanks Brian, that was what I was thinking but I was was unsure they would still maintaining the rifle in those late years.
Richard
In Australia, they were still in service, (and with proper maintenance), with Cadet forces until the early 1970's. I last fired one in a Cadet service match in 1974.
Then, with the abolition of National Service in December 1972 and the subsequent obliteration of the Cadet services, it was all over. SMLEs, Brens, Owens and such were either destroyed or bundled up and sold off-shore in bulk, mostly into North America, either as parts kits or complete.
Hi Bruce, I learned something new!
I am quite please with the condition and function of my Lithgow rifle and the important matching serial numbers.
It is my 4th Lee Enfield and by far the best.
Thanks,
Richard
And they appeared here in gunshops for sale in the mid '80's... Many still with the paint from Cadet service, yellow or green markings. Many as new.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz
I noticed today the bolt head is marked MA 59, I would say it was changed when the rifle was re barreled.
Which would make sense as it needed to be headspaced.Quote:
Originally Posted by RDSMB
I'm working on a similar Lithgow Mk.III* today that had a barrel change in 6-64. It's 1944 rifle and the replacement barrel is dated 8-44. It was sent for rebarreling along with a nos RFI replacement barrel but it gauges as near new in both the muzzle, breech and bore. Someone shot and left it with corrosive primed ammo so it's rusty in the grooves but I advised him to leave it alone since the barrel was near new when it happened. I think it will clean up cosmetically with use and proper cleaning. Changing the barrel is unnecessary. It just needs a little love.
I agree Brian, it doesn’t seem critical, there are worse out there.
Hey all I have a heavy Lithgow barrel that has no date on it I was looking to have it put onto a 1917 receiver I have and then have anew bolt fitted up . It is going to be a tribute target rifle .brian do you fit new barrels and fit bolts to the receiver at all ?
The short answer is yes. Contact me directly if you have questions.
bdlltd@bellsouth.net
I was in the Perth Modern School Cadets and we had 4-5 lockable racks of MkIII's most had Red painted and others Yellow nose caps and red or yellow band on the butt these were for parade and drill only stripping the mag etc using the pull throughs and sighting tuition learning how to use the charger clips and guides with drill rounds. Then we had the Green painted ones think there was 10-15 of this type of MkIII's in the Q Store Armoury these never went on parade or drill they were cleaned and oiled by a select few cadets these were for range use only.
I still remember being selected in the school cadet rifle team two years in a row where we were bundled into a regular army truck that picked us up at the school to convey us to Swanbourne rifle range (Now only used by the SASR) they had the back canvas pegged open and we all felt proud sitting there with motorists behind looking at us as we sat there in our JG's with the MkIII's.
A proud moment for myself in 1972 I received my X'ed rifle badge the very first year it was introduced by the Regular army to the Cadet units firing the exact same course of fire as the Regular Army over 3 ranges multi positioned the last one being a 200 - 100 yard run to fire 2 rounds from the standing position at a 6" disc held aloft by the personnel in the butts I managed one hit the other parted its hair. I was the first and only one that year to attain that award and best rifleman trophy.
But heck we had some gear in the armoury we had a 3" mortar complete which we used with just the ballistite charge I am sure in a demo on the school oval the rounds barely went up 20'-30' some tumbled but its was to show the school what we were taught (Never ever live fired but) MkIII .22 trainers which we shot on the school grounds through Mosman tubes with a baffled sleepered 25 yard range pretty sure we had 4 Brens complete in their cases which we used to practice on we got to fire the Army ones at the Bushmede range in Perth.
Couple of pics 1) Receiving my X'ed rifles and best rifleman trophy, salute was a bit sloppy my thumb! Love the hair not really regulation length...... 2) Our passing out parade my final one (I am 3rd left on the end, you'll note the troops 1st years are out of step!!!!)]
What numbers and / or letters are on the bolt-head?
Asking because, in the early 1950's, Lithgow made a short run of "over-length" bolt-heads; a concept similar to normal practice on the No4 series.
Before that, there was ONE, (count them) ONE "standard" bolt-head with known tolerances The ONLY notable difference was that the early ones were made from "malleable cast iron" and later ones, particularly in Australia, were made from "mild steel", suitably case hardened and identifiable as such by a sans-serif, upper case "M". These went with ONE receiver Body and ONE bolt body and ONE barrel, all of which had to be hand selected and fitted / matched via some very expensive gauges, to build a mechanism that was to overall dimensions and tolerances. VERY Nineteenth Century.
Oz was using the No1 Mk 111 Sniper rigs until the mid 1970s. Oz Infantry units sent off to the Great South-East Asian War-Games took their SMLE sniper rigs. However finding MkVll ball ammo in country was a bit of a challenge. And the Patt 18 (Aust) optics were not quite at home in the local environment and optically WAY behind the Weaver and Redfield / Leatherwood units starting to appear in theatre. The information on those "extra" bolt-heads is to be found in the workshop instructions also still being issued in the mid 1970's. I vaguely remember posting that workshop instruction and bolt-head table somewhere here, a few years ago. I'll go for a little "dive".
Cheers.
Found it:
Oz "oversize" post WW2 bolt-heads
Part Number Body length Size No.
B1/BAA 3425 0.635” 5 ( "Standard" size)
B1/BAA 3426 0.636” 6
B1/BAA 3427 0.637” 7
B1/BAA 3428 0.638” 8
B1/BAA 3429 0.639” 9
B1/BAA 3430 0.640” 0
Squeezing the last bit of life from the No1 before the L1A1 took over.
Brian I sent you an emailQuote:
Originally Posted by Brian Dick
I put this chart in here as well just in case the question pops in about No.4 bolt head sizes.
Not quite correct mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz
No HTs ever went to Viet Nam.
Sniping was outside of current doctrine and subsequently a forgotten/lost art within the Oz Army after Korea.
In 1969 the ATF were loaned 12 XM21 rifles and in 1970 the US 25th Infantry Division invited four members of 8RAR to attend sniper training at it's sniper school at Chu Chi.
Reacting to lessons learned and a change in doctrine, in 1976 Australia's first snipers course since 1944 was conducted at Singleton using HTs as an interim weapon drawn from war reserve stocks. Initially, ammunition used was belted Pakistani Mk7 which was still within the system for use in battlefield inoculation via Vickers guns. The shortfalls in quality of this ammo were soon rectified by local purchase of Oz made Mk7.
P.O.F ~ Possibility Of Firing yes used it a few times on the range I may as well have had a percusion black powder - click - pause - bang & clouds of crap out of the muzzle with a "Where did that one go!"
At least of those XM-21 kits "stowed away' and ended up here in Brisbane, in the armoury of one of the Regular infantry Battalions. I last saw it over twenty years ago. I knew what it was but had never before seen on in the flesh.
The other people looked at me funny when I tried to explain what it was.
It was probably "rendered innocuous" or sent for destruction during one of several waves of "culling" that went on over the years. Not standard, certainly not "issue" and just one more thing to account for in stock-takes / "security checks", Even welded-up SMLEs (1912 Lithgow!, for starters) on "honour boards" and a and a LIVE Lithgow Vickers with original tripod, (Unit Orderly Room ornament) went to the smelter in the purges.