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Trying to figure out what this is. It's on the lid of what is ID'ed as a late 1800's Russian mess kit. The mess kit is well made of copper and I have been able to confirm imperial Russian marks on identical kits which also had dates in the late 1800's. This one is not the same however and I can find no similar example of either of the marks. Wondering if it is Russian or of one of the other nearby nations of the time.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../AJ06yWb-1.jpg
The unreliable source of Wikipedia says the 'K'(that should have a wee baron it too) is non-Slavic Cyrillic. And that the '3' is not Cyrillic at all.
It also says "Peter the Great, Tsar of Russia, mandated the use of westernized letter forms in the early 18th century."
The picture is out of focus.
It seems unlikely that the same mess kit would be in service for that long which would date it in the late 1600's to early 1700's. Peter the Great also doesn't appear with a beard in the images I've checked. It does look like other writing around the images and the one on the right might be read.
I don't have the item in hand yet so can't do anything about the quality of the photo at present. Will see what I can do when it arrives.
I did try looking at other images. Alexander II and Nicholas II look like the only bearded ones in the time frame.
Try doing a rubbing on the images. Soft pencil with tissue paper. Like the ones done with Medieval graves. Might let you see the image better.
I was thinking it might have been made in Germany and the stamps are maker's marks. The Russians were enamoured with Germany in those days. Just a WHAG.
The Peter reference is about the non-Cryllic "3.K." not that Pete had anything to do with making or issuing it. Pity the guy's head isn't complete. Assuming he's Royal, his hat can some times give him a date.
Oh and it's a wee bar, not a baron. Friggin' library key boards.
Only description I have is that the one on the right looks like a priest. I'm not quite seeing it but it's blurry so who knows. Delivery notice is for next Monday. I'll keep you posted.
Are you sure that the marking on the right isn't some sort of maker's mark or even all 3 markings, maker marks?
Not sure of anything. They obviously can be makers marks. I am just aware that other examples of this same kit have the Russian Imperial eagle on them which also could be a makers mark for a different company. Or it could be an acceptance stamp, just don't know. Not many examples on the net that I've found, only three counting this one. The other two have the imperial eagle.
Looking forward to just seeing the complete item once you have it in hand too...these look nice when cleaned up.
Well, it arrived today. It is not what I was expecting. I was expecting something mess kit sized, 5 inches or so around. This thing is 10 inches deep and about 12 inches around. It's a damn cook pot of some sort. I don't have time to do anything with it at the moment so pics will have to wait. It's extremely well made and looks nice but if I knew it was a cook pot, I wouldn't have bid on the thing.
Yes, that was one I saw. They look like section cook sets. The smaller ones looked like German individual sets... You can always use it in the kitchen...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn243
Looks to me like a woman who has just handed out food to a line of sitting men.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn243
Any other "interpretations" of the image?
Makers mark with price of 3 Kopecki? Just a wild guess...
Insides appear to have been tinned. Not sure what is involved in that but I would think lead is involved so won't be eating out of this thing. Maybe not, like I said, I don't know what's involved in that. It is interesting and I'm getting the humor of the whole thing. Showed it to my wife yesterday and we both got a laugh out of it. Just not sure what to make of it at this point. Will try to get some photos up over the weekend. I can't find anything like it with cook pot, still only comes up with mess kit so still probably military, just not something a soldier is going to be carrying around in his ruck. I tried field kitchen also and nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
I saw pics that had a dark interior, that must be what I saw.
Normally I would assume this to be an alloy of tin and lead and that alloy could be an alloy consisting mainly of tin or mainly of lead or anywhere between the two. Nowadays in the UK and I assume the US and other places lead isn't used where it comes into contact with foodstuffs or drinking water etc as you allude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn243
Lead is in a lot of old plumbing systems in both communities and homes. This is likely worldwide. All new plumbing systems must be lead free and upgrading is to be lead free. In general, the amount that is going to leach into your drinking water is very small but cooking in a lead lined pot would not be a good idea.
Don't try this at home, but when my mother and her two brothers were children they use to "like to" chew the heads off the lead soldiers that they were playing with. Don't ask me why they enjoyed doing this but I don't expect that they were the only children to "chew lead soldiers". One can imagine the reaction that one would get today if one attempted to market a child's toy made out of lead.
That and dumping the mercury out of those '50's and '60's toys and letting it run around in your hands...Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying10uk
Russ
Here it is with some other items to provide scale. It's not as quite as big as I described but it's pretty big to be a mess kit. I'd still like to know what it is for sure and if it's military. As you can see from the photo of the inside, I don't think this is usable for anything other than looking interesting on a shelf.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../TTbDTth-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../sMmgOgL-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../kYT80M5-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../tUjaQtw-1.jpg
It does look like a priest maybe standing in a field or on a threshing floor.
Yes. leaded or tinned inside for sure. Pretty un-appetizing.
Is that your kit layout on the foot of your bed? I commend your personal discipline...make your bed and kit layout... Now get that copper polished and we'll have a look in the morning.
I've been working on assembling a WWI setup. Actually I ended up with nearly two sets. I'd get something on ebay and then another one would come along with something else I needed and I ended up with extras. Needed a shelter half, wound up with three of them, all from the same purchase in that instance. I don't have that rolled up yet obviously. Blanket on it's way now. I don't understand what ever possessed them to design the haversack the way they did.
There were some that it actually made sense to...but I prefer a rucksack. This one I think was meant to allow access to certain things without tearing it apart. Like the poncho maybe... Anyway, all mine is gone now. Nice M10 first aid pouch. Clean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn243