Got a Rock- Ola and have questions

Brand new here, as in first post. I joined this site because I was gifted a m1 carbine from my late grandfather and would like to know more about the history of the rifle as well as restoring it. My grandfather told me he traded for it in the 80's. The rifle has unfortunately had the stock replaced with a cheap hunting stock and a "numerich arms" scope mount with a "sterling" scope. Along with that it has had the front and rear site removed.
Naturally, I would like to replace the missing pieces and restore the rifle back to its original status. Any help with locating said items would be appreciated as well as any information on what to look for when acquiring said items. I will continue to search the internet on my own but appreciate the help from the knowledgeable crew here.
Thanks Everyone.

We need pics of this one, to show us how removed the sights are. In some cases the rear sight dovetail was completely gone and serrated after... The stocks came from various suppliers, Reinhart Fajen, Bishop...others. Also, many restorations are far more expensive that you might think. You can place a WTB in the forum here and probably glean most of what you need... Let's have a look...?

These should help...
Attachment 105027Attachment 105024Attachment 105028Attachment 105025Attachment 105022Attachment 105026Attachment 105023

Good news/bad news. The good is that your dovetail appears usable. The front sight being gone allows you to remove that cut down bayonet barrel band and install a correct one and then the front sight can go on. The not so good news is there will always be a screw hole at the front of the receiver where one shouldn't be so it's not a great candidate for restoration. For me it clears a mystery on one I owned that had a hole there. Obviously it was for a scope but I'd never seen that mount configuration until your pics. Also, your dovetail looks cratered but I could be wrong. If they're large craters it's probably from having an adjustable sight on it and most likely it didn't have one originally, so you aren't really gaining any greatness by installing an expensive barrel band and flip type rear sight. the stock will be pricey as well.

But to be sure of your needed parts, what are the first 4 digits of the serial number? That tells the date of assembly/manufacture. The trigger group looks to be mix-master too so this was most likely a Rock receiver with Rock barrel when your Dad got it. Carbines that went through rebuild aren't good candidates for restore. One with a scope hole is a little further down the road from that level. Best money is to take the scope mount off and rebuild it as a shooter. Also, reproduction parts look pretty bad to a person with a little training so don't enrich repop makers for their personal gain.

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Originally Posted by tenOC

Good news/bad news. The good is that your dovetail appears usable. The front sight being gone allows you to remove that cut down bayonet barrel band and install a correct one and then the front sight can go on. The not so good news is there will always be a screw hole at the front of the receiver where one shouldn't be so it's not a great candidate for restoration. For me it clears a mystery on one I owned that had a hole there. Obviously it was for a scope but I'd never seen that mount configuration until your pics. Also, your dovetail looks cratered but I could be wrong. If they're large craters it's probably from having an adjustable sight on it and most likely it didn't have one originally, so you aren't really gaining any greatness by installing an expensive barrel band and rear sight. the stock will be pricey as well.

But to be sure of your needed parts, what are the first 4 digits of the serial number? That tells the date of assembly/manufacture. The trigger group looks to be mix-master too so this was most likely a Rock receiver with Rock barrel when your Dad got it. Carbines that went through rebuild aren't good candidates for restore. One with a scope hole is a little further down the road from that level. Best money is to take the scope mount off and rebuild it as a shooter.

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1684 first 4 digits, Thanks for the info btw

I edited my replay with some more info after seeing a grammar problem in it. But yeah, that would have a lot of expensive early parts and you'd just end up having an expensive parts gun. We love our family connection with these historical pieces but unfortunately that doesn't help the issues these guns have. And almost all of them have had something freaky done to them.

The stock is $250-600. The trigger group is $300 at least. A flip is $300. The band is up there too. Maybe $200? I'm not up on band prices. Still it will have crater staking and the scope hole.

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Originally Posted by tenOC

I edited my replay with some more info after seeing a grammar problem in it. But yeah, that would have a lot of expensive early parts and you'd just end up having an expensive parts gun. We love our family connection with these historical pieces but unfortunately that doesn't help the issues these guns have. And almost all of them have had something freaky done to them.

The stock is $250-600. The trigger group is $300 at least. A flip is $300. The band is up there too. Maybe $200? I'm not up on band prices. Still it will have crater staking and the scope hole.

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Why would I have to replace the trigger group or housing? I haven't checked the markings but I assume its all original. also whats a "flip" ? do you mean flip up rear sight?

A type I sight is what it came with originally. You can call it a flip up. It's a flip sight to most Carbine people. The safety is changed as is the mag catch, the barrel band was changed and since the rear sight has what appears to be craters from a type II/type III rear sight, it's probably been through a full rebuild and they would've replaced all the entire trigger group and parts most likely. Sometimes you get lucky and have a trigger housing, slide or bolt that's Rockola.

As ten said, restoration would be very pricey and not really worth it in the end. HOWEVER; if you simply want to make it LOOK much like it originally did, you can do that with repro parts for a lot less $. Its your carbine and you can do what you want. I've used some repro parts as temporary "fixes" just for looks until I could find originals. If you decide to go that route, I'm sure many of us have repro parts that we would part with for realistic prices. BUT you will still have a "looks like" carbine and not a restoration and folks in the know would recognize it as such. It's your choice so do what YOU want to do.

I guess I will start a careful disassembly this weekend to see what I'm working with. Thanks for all the info. Maybe Ill get lucky and itll still have some Rockola stuff in it.

When I've acquired a Carbine as a keeper and it arrived with reproduction parts, the repop parts come off right away. If it's a well used Carbine that isn't going to stay with me and it has them, they can stay and get sold on the Carbine when it sells. But it would be better if collectors didn't further the repop industry by buying new ones.

You could look at it as a labor or love. Yes, correct parts are expensive and in the end you will have a parts gun that isn't worth what it cost you, but it would be "your" gun with "your" sweat and time and be a really fun shooter. For me, it isn't always the cost, it is the hunt of finding a piece and then the joy of restoring it. You can take your time and buy an original piece each month then look forward to that monthly piece arriving and installing it. It's a Rockola and there are not very many of them so I would personally try to save it, even if it is a money pit.

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Originally Posted by Singer B

It's a Rockola and there are not very many of them so I would personally try to save it, even if it is a money pit.

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The wife is going to have a field day with that last part lol

Its kind of like a boat. A hole in the water that you dump money into! *LOL*

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Originally Posted by 01lowbird

The wife is going to have a field day with that last part lol

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I distracted my wife by buying her a boat! LOL

I would break her down and do an inventory of parts. Get her back to USGI specs and later on you can worry about getting it all correct. Best of luck....

It's a stretch find a piece per month for half of the Carbine makers. You'll get a chance at 1 or 2 flips per year. Same for mag catches.

I think trying to correct it will be a problem as it still has the screw hole in the side of the receiver, dinged up dovetail too. Make it a shooter that looks like a military carbine and you keep the Rock-Ola name and have Grandad's carbine up and running like an original...

You CAN fill the screw hole with wire feed weld and re finish the receiver but then it's still not original...and if the guy doesn't do a good job won't look good either.

I would replace missing parts with GI parts, not repo. Once you inventory the parts you have, you can decide which way you want to go. restoration or rebuild with GI parts.:super:

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Originally Posted by shadycon

I would replace missing parts with GI parts, not repo.

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Agreed...not repros.

OP

For your learning pleasure.
The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbines

FWIW you can install the sights without the tools, but its time consuming.

There are folks that will loan out the tools to do it. Generally when I've done it the borrower pays shipping both ways and a refundable deposit worth the replacement cost of the tools.

Something you could do with the same money as restoring this one is you could buy another USGI Carbine.

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Originally Posted by tenOC

with the same money as restoring this one is you could buy another USGI Carbine.

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Yes, and you could clean up and keep Grandpa's gun like it is.

Why not keep Grandpa's gun as is, except for cleaning it? It won't be Grandpa's gun the moment you start changing things, but a built up gun that used to be Grandpa's gun. However, it's yours and you can do what you like with it.

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Originally Posted by tenOC

It's a stretch find a piece per month for half of the Carbine makers. You'll get a chance at 1 or 2 flips per year. Same for mag catches.

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I started looking on the net and so far....... not much. It'll indeed be a slow process

And sometimes parts can take not weeks or months but years to find. All because the right parts are serial number dependent with carbines. And as TenOC wisely stated you will need DEEP pockets. The prices he quoted are pretty darn close to what people are paying now. As time goes by the prices are going to climb. I have seen people sink like $4000 into parts in a restoration. The whole carbine isn't worth that at all!!!!! For under $200 you can get a post war replacement stock, a replacement front sight, key and sight pin and a reproduction rear flip sight or a later during the war adjustable sight and look like 99% of the carbines out there.

My condolences on your loss.
Start here. The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbines
Rock-ola made 13 of the parts including the receiver. None of the original makers made all of 'em. So there's no such thing as an "all original" Carbine.
There's a free .pdf manual here. (Note the need for the provided UN & PW.) It'll tell you how to install a new front sight and the other bits. Biggerhammer.net - Miscellaneous Firearms Technical and Training Manuals
Gunparts(not the only source, so shop around.) has the parts for not totally stupid money. The front sight runs $13.75. $6.75 for the key and $2.75 for the pin. Needs a piece of wood, a punch and a brass mallet to put on.
Stocks and all the wee bits that go with 'em can get expensive.
Rear sights can be either the early flip sight or the adjustable. 99.99% of all Carbines went through a post war rebuild that mostly put on all the 'upgrades' approved during W.W. II. You can decide which ones you want and put 'em on if you feel like it. Usually as money becomes available.
When you get that far, think IMR4227 and 110 grain HP's or FMJ RN's.

All Carbines started out as all original. Well, almost all. Don't mind him. He doesn't know the diff in saying all Rockola and all original.

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Originally Posted by tenOC

Don't mind him.

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Exactly...

First time tearing these rifles down. Very simple concept. Thought I’d add these marking pictures.

Typical parts after a normal rebuild. Quality hardware trigger housing, and the bolt is Inland. I can't see the rest for markings.

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Originally Posted by 01lowbird

First time tearing these rifles down. Very simple concept. Thought I’d add these marking pictures.

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The Hammer has an R, I assume its Rock-ola. I didnt tear down the trigger assembly but will later. The Slide has weird markings on the inside... It looks like a backwards "B", followed by lower case "e"and uppercase "V" but that could just be my eyes. Ill probably try to id it from the US Carbine page later. The Bolt says AI so thats INland I guess, I didnt take it apart yet to nor did I idea which "Type" it is. Lastly theres a "2' on the bottom of the receiver, kinda near the side spring hole. Havent' found any info on that yet.
Will report back when I do a further break down .
As always, thanks for the info.

Pictures please!

They're on page one showing a KR hammer and AOB slide.

Hey ten! You can't count! Page 3 not 1! *LOL* That backwards B, e and V are an upside down AOB! *LOL* That is what I was scratching my head about! DUH! OOPS! I think my brain just rolled out my ear!

I can't count.

I'd come to the same conclusion on the markings in the recent pictures, but forgot they were on page 3. :banghead: - Bob

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Originally Posted by 01lowbird

I guess I will start a careful disassembly this weekend to see what I'm working with. Thanks for all the info. Maybe Ill get lucky and itll still have some Rockola stuff in it.

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Probably not, virtually all the Carbines have been through overhaul and ended up as a parts mix anyway from what I have seen so far.

Assuming it's mechanically sound, you could start with a relatively easy to find cheap later beech Potbelly stock set.

Later adjustable backsight and front sight parts, plus bayonet front band, more expensive, but still widely available.

I would be tempted to just fill the drilled hole and just touch in....

That would give you a stock carbine, depends how deep your pockets are really.

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

Probably not, virtually all the Carbines have been through overhaul and ended up as a parts mix anyway from what I have seen so far.

Assuming it's mechanically sound, you could start with a relatively easy to find cheap later beech Potbelly stock set.

Later adjustable backsight and front sight parts, plus bayonet front band, more expensive, but still widely available.

I would be tempted to just fill the drilled hole and just touch in....

That would give you a stock carbine, depends how deep your pockets are really.

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This is kindof my plan. I want to get the gun to operating as a servicable rifle and then collect more expensive parts as I go along. Based on my initial research, it's hard to find real GI rock-ola stuff.

I don't know if Rockola carbines left the factory with only Rockola parts. Many manufacturers used parts from other manufacturers. You can go to USCARBINECALM1.com and use their charts to identify what parts should be on you rifle based upon its serial number and then you can compare them to what you actually have. I was able to do that with my Underwood and confirm all the parts were correct for it. That would help you to get it as close as possible to original. Hope that helps!

Be careful. That site works fairly well for many serials, but I just tried it with a 4.4 mil NPM. It's totally wrong. It's like Reisch and you will mess up an honest Carbine.

Don't break up a Carbine or try to correct one without doing it publicly on a Carbine website with experienced people guiding you because someone reading this is going to destroy a valuable Carbine building a cobbled something of lesser value. And don't rely on one individual to guide you. Only a handful of people can cover it all.
Look at one serial block for example 4,075,010 - 4,432,099. That site says the last serials won't have early features. That's totally wrong.

Ten offers some great advice. If you have a carbine with a mix of parts that works, why would you take off various parts and maybe make it not work and spend lots of money for parts that may be fake? The end result will be a mixmaster with flaws and fakes. The term "corrected" is the kiss of death for a lot of people. The majority of original carbines are late production guns by Winchester and Inland. They went from factory to storage and were sold back to the public by the NRA. Consider that these guns had all of the latest parts and work very well.

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Originally Posted by DaveHH

Ten offers some great advice. If you have a carbine with a mix of parts that works, why would you take off various parts and maybe make it not work and spend lots of money for parts that may be fake? The end result will be a mixmaster with flaws and fakes. The term "corrected" is the kiss of death for a lot of people. The majority of original carbines are late production guns by Winchester and Inland. They went from factory to storage and were sold back to the public by the NRA. Consider that these guns had all of the latest parts and work very well.

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Well I need parts to get the rifle in working order so looking for correct parts seems like a good idea. However, just getting it in working order also seems solid lol. I need a complete stock, front and rear sights at minimum. Likely need a barrel band as well.

Fellas, I've closed this thread as it has derailed and the back and forth rather distracting. Please let's try to be more civil with one another. ;)