Green "Crud" on my Slings?

Not sure if this is the correct forum for this but I gotta start somewhere. I'm sure I'm not the first person to mention this topic, probably already discussed somewhere else, if so, please direct me accordingly.

i have numerous vintage military rifles, many with their original leather & brass slings. I don't store the rifles with the slings attached, mainly for one reason; the green "crud" that mysteriously appears wherever the brass buckles/fittings touch the leather! Heaven help you if a chunk of the "crud" breaks off & gets on your clothes, hands or carpet, it will stain anything it touches. Obviously some sort of chemical reaction between the leather and brass components. I've spent countless hours cleaning all the slings periodically only to find the "green crud" is back the next time I take them out.

Anyone know what this stuff is and more importantly, how to stop it from "growing" back?

Appreciate any & all suggestions! --728shooter

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Originally Posted by 728shooter

the green "crud" that mysteriously appears wherever the brass buckles/fittings touch the leather!

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Yup, you came to the right place, its Vertigras. This question has been asked before here is a link to the original thread started by Make Hass in 2009 --> Thread: "Vertigras" (SP) - Green Crap!!! https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=18046

Mike and others give you the instructions for cleaning and maintains it.

Bill,

Mostly spot on. Spelling is Vertigris.

Easily removed with lemon juice and sea salt solution or good quality white vinegar.

:thup:

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Originally Posted by 22SqnRAE

Mostly spot on. Spelling is Vertigris.

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I cut and pasted from the original post ;) Guess I should have spell checked that one.

Bill,

Please don't see this as a pedantic 'dig' just want to make sure that others wanting to search for the details found them easy enough.

I am grateful for the redline spell check on my puta, as I'm partially dyslexic and am hopeless at accurate typing! :madsmile:

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Originally Posted by 22SqnRAE

Please don't see this as a pedantic 'dig'

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Not at all :) I should have caught it and didn't. I didn't catch it when I read the posting < 3 years ago when I was looking for the exact same answer.

Anywayzzz...yes, verdigris tends to form and will actually push sling assemblies apart if allowed to stay. I have a Randall fighting knife I have to keep an eye on to see it doesn't form between the cross guard and leather sheath. I've had to disassemble 1907 slings to remove it as it was inside the rivets and pushing things apart aggressively...

Well, I'm certainly glad I'm not lysdexic!

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Originally Posted by 22SqnRAE

Bill,

Mostly spot on. Spelling is Vertigris.

Easily removed with lemon juice and sea salt solution or good quality white vinegar.

:thup:

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Well, if we are being pedantic, I must be the pedant's pedant - the correct spelling is verdigris :madsmile:

David, you're absolutely spot on. Thank you. Buggered if I know what happened there. Verdigris was exactly what I was thinking and managed a 't' instead. The power of suggestion, hey? Well, I feel like a right goose now! :(

Probably a good reminder to check and double check my typing.

On to Jim's point about the verdigris pressuring rivets. It's a really good reminder that constant preventative maintenance is essential to preserve all things mechanical. As noted, cleaning verdigris out of brass sling components prevents mechanical expansion and damage. In a similar manner to rust expanding 9 times it's 'eaten' volume, which causes an enormous pressure on surrounding components and leads to mechanical failure. Hence why concrete spalling occurs when the reinforcement steel rusts below the surface.

With brass, the verdigris is actually a product of slow dissolving of the metal to other constituent compounds. Leave it long enough and you'll easily see the erosion caused by the conversion of base metal to other oxidation compounds.

While the nice 'patina' and verdigris colouration is appealing to some, they are simply oxidation products of the base metal, meaning the base metal is slowly, but surely, being consumed and no longer it's full size and intended strength. A technical reality that some people in the collecting fraternity neither care for nor understand, form my observation.

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Originally Posted by 22SqnRAE

As noted, cleaning verdigris out of brass sling components prevents mechanical expansion and damage. In a similar manner to rust expanding 9 times it's 'eaten' volume, which causes an enormous pressure on surrounding components and leads to mechanical failure.

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I have had much success using Palette Knives aka Painting Knifes to get under the brass on slings to clean them out. I've used dental floss as well on snaps and such, but it tends to brake easy.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...e_3I_2j_-1.jpg

Good suggestion Bill, you know that will create an "ah-ha" for some quiet readers. :thup:

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Originally Posted by 22SqnRAE

Good suggestion Bill, you know that will create an "ah-ha" for some quiet readers.

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I saw my wife using these things one night and thought, wow those Palette Knives would work great when I was working on wooden stocks and when inletting so I bought some. Then I was cleaning up some slings and needed to get under the brass. These just happened to be on my workbench at the time. It was an "ah-ha" moment for me too, the blades on these are stainless steel and about 0.012" (0.31mm) thick so they slip easily between things. The ones I have are called Master's Touch and are at the Hobby Lobby for $11.00 US. Credit to my crafty wifey.

Thanks to all for the info on this! Now that I know I'm not the only one with this problem, i can spend my spare time cleaning everything again and know what I'm doing!

THANKS! --728shooter

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Originally Posted by 22SqnRAE

David, you're absolutely spot on. Thank you. Buggered if I know what happened there. Verdigris was exactly what I was thinking and managed a 't' instead. The power of suggestion, hey? Well, I feel like a right goose now! :(

Probably a good reminder to check and double check my typing.

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Was just teasing ;)

It's the copper coming out of the brass alloy. You can brush it off with a toothbrush. Highly recommended you do not use the one you do your teeth with. Isn't a good idea to borrow somebody's either. Even though that'd be really funny.
The vinegar doesn't have to be high quality. Any vinegar, vinegar being citric acid, will do nicely.
"...Spelling is..." Yeah! snicker.

Good Day All,
this is a timely discussion. I was cleaning a M1C and two M1D's this past weekend. The brass eyelets on the cheek pads (K Line, MRT 8-52, MRT 11-62) all had verdigris to some degree. An older toothbrush, very small amount of RemOil, and liberal application of Pecards leather conditioner has worked well for about 25 years.
For longer storage when dealing with bayonets, holsters, or any other accouterments that may have brass/leather contact, I use wax paper (for cooking) to "isolate" the leather from the brass/metal. Case in point, i slip a piece of wax paper over the blade of my Al Mar's and Randall's and rest it between the leather scabbard throat and the brass cross guard. This doesn't stop the oxidation/"growth" but can help to limit the amount of staining on the leather.
Best Regards,
Michael

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Originally Posted by Sunray

The vinegar doesn't have to be high quality. Any vinegar, vinegar being citric acid, will do nicely.

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Uhhh......i think its called "acetic" acid. Citric acid comes from citrus; oranges, lemons, limes, and can be a bit corrosive in itself. All that being said, understand that the vinegar will clean the verdigris, but will the vinegar do any damage (over time) to vintage leather? Would hate to find my slings & holsters start to deteriorate from the use of vinegar...

728,

In short - not really. Lotsa "...but's..."

The vinegar does need to be good quality, hence reasonably strong to get the job done quickly and efficiently. Watered down cheap and nasty brands will prolong the exercise and annoy you and potentially have the item wet for too long. You're not going to soak the leather and keep it wet for more than a few minutes at tops, so no real harm can come of it. Consider that leather is in contact with skin and sweat in many uses, and it survives ok if we clean and look after it.

Once verdigris is removed and clean brass seen, then it's a simple and necessary task to rinse the metal and surrounding leather with clean tap water. It removes any residual acid and takes away any build up material from the leather. When the leather is mostly dried out, then it's time to apply some of your preferred leather preservative. Your choice as to what works best for you (wax based, lanoline based, neatsfoot oil based...) But certainly giving the leather a little preservative post wetting is a good move. I've found that lanoline or Renaissance Wax is the go-to for my leather reservation.

Like most things, anything in moderation (even moderation!)