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First a hopefully uncontentious question. Would any one happen to have an L13A1 scope to hand, so they could give me the external dimensions of it? I have a commercial S&B 6x42 scope with a 26m tube and I was wondering how close it was to an L13A1
Second.... is there any truth to the suggestion that L13A1 scopes where locally fitted to L42A1s using the sort of mounts currently offered by amongst others Fulton and sons?
The commercial S&B 6x42 is the same body, however depending on how old your scope is the ocular focus ring maybe different.
A plan to extend the L42’s service life was considered when the L96 had issues when first issued and several trial brackets were produced and trialled by the SAS. The SAS never used the bracket themselves beyond the trial, however the SBS did. They copied the bracket and upgraded a number of L42 rifles to bolster the eight AI PM Rifles they purchased before they received the L96. It was a very short lived measure.
Thank you very much for the info. The scope I have has capped drums, I presume the actual ones had a bdc and windage drums?Quote:
Originally Posted by chosenman
Micheal here are some links to the PM1 S&B which might be of use.
Google Image Result for https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2013/09/DSCF5862_zpsdf6950ab-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....152&viewfull=1
If you could tell me which dimensions you exactly want to know I could measure mine. But please confirm you are talking of the green one in my picture below.
Hi,Quote:
Originally Posted by Promo
Yes I am meaning the green scope in your pictures, nice scopes. I was hoping for:
- Scope length min and max.
- objective and ocular bell external dimensions
But I now have a couple of additional questions:
- eye relief
- a photo of the grat
- total range of elevation and direction drums
- how was the colour applied, is this paint on top of a scope that was originally black or is the scope built as green.
my scope appears very similar to a l13a1 expect: grat, turrets, colour and lack of the pm prefix to the 6x42 designation. I am struggling to find exactly what specific model of scope it is and how optically it differs to an l13A1.
Additionally S&B have offered a remarkably acceptable price for swapping the capped turrets on my scope out, but I can’t find a reference to the name of turrets used on the l13, and the guy I’m talking too doesn’t seem to know. Would any one know S&B designation for the drums used?
Thanks
Hi
I've also got one of the "little green" S&B PM 6x42 scopes and have just dug it out to have a look for you. I think mine (like a few it seems) is ex-Irish with an "AI" number on it.
Scope length is 303mm
Objective external diameter is 38mm and length is 68mm from tube where taper starts to the point at which the (black coloured) focusing ring starts. The focus ring when set to "0" adds another 12mm to the length at the objective end.
Ocular bell is 48mm external diameter and is 95mm in length from front to end of where taper meets the central tube.
The drums are BDC turrets with 42 clicks marked the range drum which is also marked with 0-9 so the 42 clicks get you up to 1000m. I believe each click is equivalent to 1cm increase in elevation at 100m and that the BDC turrets were based on the standard nato 7.62mm round but perhaps other more knowledgable folks can confirm. The windage drum is 22 clicks on each side of zero for Left and Right.
From the scratches on mine it looks like the paint was applied directly to the scope rather than on top of the S&B black.
The graticle (reticle) is a large single post with fine crosswires above. I'm not sure if this is the same as the UK L13 scope pattern. I don't know if its a standard S&B pattern. Anyway a couple of pics attached, sorry for the quality, it's hard to hold the scope in one hand and the iphone in the other.
Hope this helps.
p.s. I've just taken the locking caps off the drums but can't see any marks or part numbers that would help identify them.
Kev
Hi Kev,
Thanks very much that is very helpful!
The dimensions of my scope are identical to the one from desperatedan, however the reticle on mine is different. My reticle is similar to the one of the No. 32 scopes. Also the elevation adjustment on my scope is from 1 to 10. I'd suggest you to buy a copy of "The British Sniper, a Century of Evolution", you'll find much more information on this scope in there.
It seems you plan to "convert" your scope to a L96 scope. I'd kindly ask you to mark your scope in any way that it will be possible to identify it as replica afterwards as well.
The yellow scope in my upper post by the way is a Dutch AI scope and had seen service in Afghanistan.
Edit: to make it easier for you and since I anyway wanted to see whether the color-correctioning camera and its setup made any difference to my screen when working on pictures I've did some pics of both scopes. I'll upload them here for future reference. Note that the last two digits of the Green scope were digitally removed.
Michael
Promo makes a very good point. If you're planning on making a replica then good luck to you, especially if it's to use with a rifle and originals are scarce, but marking it in such a way so as to not confuse with an original is a great idea, particularly as so little info is out there. It's hard enough gleaning knowledge about the few original ones without confusing any future interested parties with replicas!
ATB
Kev
In a second post, the pictures of the Dutch scope (quite obvious from the scope serial prefix, huh?). Once again removed serial digitally aside of the first two digits. Obviously they painted the scope yellow themselves. Take note of the caps which on this scope carry the AI logo.
Thanks Promo that is very useful.
No fears on the fake or inadvertent fake front. Due to my budget for both rifles and optics I often end up creating functional clones. These are never visually confusable beyond a cursory look. My 7.62 Enfield is just that, it was converted using surplus l42 barrel, it has a military foresight, l42 wood and a military butt with an additional cheek rest and scope reproduction pads, but no T or l42 markings.
This scope will be optically equal, functionally similar, but visually it will just be a an old 8x42 in black with newly fitted Klassik S&B turrets (probably less the l2a1 7.62 bdc scale but I’m working on that). The advantage being all in price looks like being about £300.
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Nice scope, I see it had the “newer” style Allen key locking turrets. How did you come by this one?Quote:
Originally Posted by Promo
https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....4&d=1582308296
I'm astonished if that is the reticule used. There was a pretty comprehensive study of reticules done in 1944 which concluded that what could be called a three post duplex was the ideal type. There's something to be said for the "12 o'clock downwards" post as well in low light conditions, as a number of WWI German scopes used later in the war.
Although if we now have lens coatings which can prevent light from illuminated reticules "leaking" out the objective lens, the ideal reticule for low light conditions becomes much less important.
The reticule in my my commercial 6x42 is very similar to the No32/L1A1 Scope except the post point is aligned with the cross wire, not just above. Is this as per the L96 rifles L13A1 scope?
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I am a fan of the German post, however in my opinion bdc and windage adjustment is imperative to combat the lack of aim off marks and post obscurement issues.
I think Promo's scope has the UK specific L13 pattern grat. (there's an earlier thread on here where I think the grat/reticle pattern was discussed) and the "ex-Irish" scopes like mine have different reticles with them not being ex-UK.
Both of my scopes were purchased in auctions. The Dutch rifle to my knowledge was scrapped and the scope was sold off.
desperatedan, any ideas why your scope is only marked up to 9 whereas mine is marked up to 10?
Hi Promo, no idea I'm afraid. The marks for 42 clicks go beyond the white "9" marking. I've checked my scopes and each has the same markings (and reticles). Pics below.Quote:
Originally Posted by Promo
Hi all, I have just trialled the plce rifle grenade pouch as a transit case for my L13A1 scope,,it is a perfect fit.
I have no connection with the seller and other examples are on that site to choose from.
British Army Issue Rifle Grenade Anti Armour Pouch Olive Green PLCE Pair | eBay
I can’t post photos as working from my phone but am well pleased with the results
GW
Hi GW, Is that for a bare scope or with a mount attached to it, pls?
With the mount attached, it fits perfectly, 😜👍
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The pouch has two plastic tubes inside, I pulled them out using a pair of pliers, they were just too snug a fit to pull out with my fingers
I’ve just put an order in for a couple so my L13A1 and it’s commercial 6x42 friend can have homes of there own at last.