No. 4 T Sniper. Opinions please

Hello everyone,
I have this No. 4 T sniper and would like your opinions please. My main questions are, is the rifle serial number on the stock war time? And is the serial number on the scope mount war time? Both look slightly different to me from other examples I have seen. Also, most examples I see have several inspection stamps by the rifle serial number in the stock. This one has none. But my experience with British rifles is very limited. Thank you in advance for you help. It is greatly appreciated.

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Looks good to me, an all matching late production rifle.

Looks great, is it for sale?

I agree that it looks fine. Late WWII. I have not seen the 1956 labels before but that is not a concern as these rifles remained in service for decades. You are lucky that it is a matching set as many sniper equipments were sold surplus with the incorrect scope sets. The carrying straps were often removed from the scope cases, apparently in service, so that is not a concern. EDIT: Chest carrying handles have been replaced by web dandles, but this looks like it was done in service so I suggest leaving them rather than putting on replica leather handles. I updated my database listing for this one, previously had sold in June 2016.

One tip - Do not store the desiccant package in the No.8 Mk.I scope case. Another owner’s set had this done decades ago and his leather scope caps had dried and shrivelled. Desiccant bag should be fine in the bottom of the No.15 Mk.I chest, say on left near under the muzzle, not in contact with the leather sling.

You have acquired one of the nicest examples of a No. 4 Mk. I (T) out there. As mentioned few of these have the scope set matching the rifle and far fewer have the chest numbered to the rifle as well. Be very happy!

The No. 15 Mk. I chests were reassigned as needed, which is why it has the paper label on the metal holder on the end. The chests were used for long-term storage and for shipping. One rifle might be shipped from the UK to Germany for example and if another No. 4 Mk. I (T) needed to be sent back to the UK for repairs etc. they would simply change the paper label and ship the other sniper set back to the UK in the chest. It was extremely rare for rifle/scope numbers to be painted directly onto the chest. From what I have seen this was usually done post-war when the set was held by a police unit or perhaps another NATO military force. Sometimes private owners have added permanent serial numbers numbers to the chest for their rifle and this has also been done on replica chests.

Thank you all for your help. Like I mentioned, I didn’t doubt if it is real. Just curious is the numbered mount and numbered stock were war time or post war rebuild numbering. Thanks!!! Keep the info coming. I’m interested in learning more about these.

---------- Post added at 05:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:58 PM ----------

FYI for those interested, my main interest is WWII German and Russian sniper rifles. I created a website about such rifles.

HOME | wwiigermansniper

That's a wonderful 4T.....:clap:

Very nice indeed! British M47 BSA, lovely condition...

So another question, I posted this on gunboards and a few members have stated that the mag and mount were numbered post war because mags were not numbered during WWII. Is this true?

mdarnell19

Very nice correct and matching No4 T. Just started looking and reading your website on German/Russian snipers, thanks for posting that link.....it's interesting.

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Originally Posted by mdarnell19

So another question, I posted this on gunboards and a few members have stated that the mag and mount were numbered post war because mags were not numbered during WWII. Is this true?

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Long Branch No4 T snipers appear to have had the Rings (partially at least) numbered right from "day 1".

My understanding is that the instruction to number the rings of British No4 T rifles was issued in 1946 or '47, but the British "List of Changes" and contract instructions are well known for issuing retroactive instructions.

My belief, based on observation and limited experience is that by mid- 1944 H&H was numbering rings (on their own hook) and the ACI/List of Changes instruction to do so was issued retroactively post war.

Does anyone (Roger/Lance/Rob ??) Have a late MkII, MkII/I or Mk3 scope in its original bracket which is not numbered?

As to the magazines, most (but not all) No4T mags (which appear to be original to the gun) which I've observed are numbered - but again, this is a replaceable part.

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Originally Posted by Lee Enfield

As to the magazines, most (but not all) No4T mags (which appear to be original to the gun) which I've observed are numbered - but again, this is a replaceable part.

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I have not see as many 4T's as other folk, but I guess that all of them have lost their magazines over the years - I have never seen one with a numbered magazine.

Looking at the OP's pictures I would question the possibility of an armourer doing such a poor job of alignment, and, using 2 or 3 different sized / font number punches.

I have no doubt that the rifle is all correct, but I have reservations about the originality of the magazine.

That's been done by someone who lost their '9' punch

They have used a lower case G 'g' instead

I think if those numbers were done by a civilian faker, they'd have done a better job. The sheer ineptitude of the stamping suggests it was done by someone forced to do this and who was bored with the task...

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Originally Posted by RobD

I think if those numbers were done by a civilian faker, they'd have done a better job. The sheer ineptitude of the stamping suggests it was done by someone forced to do this and who was bored with the task...

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Agree. There’s nothing whatsoever wrong with it imho. Sorry this is brief; I’m half way under the English Channel on my way back from the Somme. Marvellous internet reception 100 feet under water.......

P.S. Have yet to see an unnumbered bracket (cradle clamps) of UK mfr. As far as I have been able to see the font varies between Rose Brothers & Dalgleish brackets. Also, generally only one of them appears to have used a letter prefix with the number, at least, from my limited observations. One has to bear in mind that many have also been refurbished in service.

A very late in the day PPS. I may have misinterpreted Lee Enfield's comments above - he used the word 'rings' which made me think he was talking about the numbering on the cradle clamps, hence the comments on the use or otherwise of a letter prefix. On re-reading this now old post, I wonder if in fact he was just referring to the application of the rifle serial number to the bracket? If so, yes, I've had one or possibly two, over the years, but very seldom seen, & presumably sold off, or more likely 'liberated' very early on.

The No4 T I used to own had the dessicant bag in the scope can. Dry rotted the lens cover. Not a good thing.

My understanding was that magazine serial stamping was normal during post war refurb.

Just wanted to post one more time and thank all the friendly members who took the time to post here and answer my questions. I am the new guy here and you all responded kindly with factual information. I greatly appreciate that.

If anyone here ever needs help or info on a German or Russian sniper rifle then please don't hesitate to reach out to me. I am always happy to help. Email me at mdarnell19@gmail.com

The M(!) 92 stamped on the left front pad is intriguing along with the rifle serial No. of the left receiver wall which you can just make out if, when & why were these two things likely to occur....

N92 represents the bracket being made by Dalglish.