No4 Mk1 T Gains a Scope

During my visit at the re-opening of the Bevrijdingsmuseum in Nieuwdorp, the curator mentioned that one of their T's had no scope. Later, back in the UK, I saw that Southams had a replica in their auction. I contacted the museum and asked if a replica would suffice, particularly as the cost would be far less than an original.
It transpired that a resident in the area had a scope that was found on the Sloedam in 1944 and this is now attached to the T that had no scope.
I have attached a couple of photos, unfortunately, I wasn't provided with the scope number.
It's possible it was used by a sniper of the 6th Battalion Cameronians, who landed behind the German defenses during Operation Mallard.
I wonder if rifle AV221 survived.

IanS, that's good evidence that numbering of the bracket to the rifle was done during WW2.

Hi Rob, I will try to get confirmation that the scope bracket was attached to the scope when received by the museum. Unfortunately, we will never know how it was found. I understood that the bracket came with the scope.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IanS

During my visit at the re-opening of the Bevrijdingsmuseum in Nieuwdorp, the curator mentioned that one of their T's had no scope. Later, back in the UK, I saw that Southams had a replica in their auction. I contacted the museum and asked if a replica would suffice, particularly as the cost would be far less than an original.
It transpired that a resident in the area had a scope that was found on the Sloedam in 1944 and this is now attached to the T that had no scope.
I have attached a couple of photos, unfortunately, I wasn't provided with the scope number.
It's possible it was used by a sniper of the 6th Battalion Cameronians, who landed behind the German defenses during Operation Mallard.
I wonder if rifle AV221 survived.

---

It looks like it could be AV22121.....?

However, that first 2 would tally with a Faz made No.4............surely not likely for a late war 4T....?

It's off a BSA 1943 rifle, AV prefix, probably latter part of 1943. The serials are usually four digits after the two letter prefix, but I guess that's because there are a lot more four digit options available. You have to start at AV 1 & work up, I suppose.......

That's a very astute observation Rob! It would be nice if we could confirm that scope & bracket have been together since picked up in 1944. The font of the serial number marking is certainly what is commonly encountered but which we have usually attributed to being a post WW2 feature........

Hi guys, I've just received an email from Holland, in which it says, the scope had the bracket attached when they got it but it didn't come to them in its container. The attack on the Sloedam was a Canadian operation and that was where the scope was found. I assumed it was likely to have been a Cameronian sniper. Would British and Canadian snipers be supplied with both British built T's and Long Branch T's? The Battle of the Scheldt was a Canadian led action. My BSA T has an AM**** serial number.

Here's another photo, I didn't put it up earlier because of a strange lighting effect.

It's a Houghton Butcher scope in the 10,000 SN range; can see that much.

According to the late Clive Law's excellent research, most of the approximately 1,588 No. 4 Mk. I* (T) Canadian Long Branch made sniper rifles were sent to the British military. Unlike other small arms, WWII Canadian snipers in Europe received their rifles from the British "pool" so a Canadian sniper could have any of the versions in North West Europe. (Reference: WITHOUT WARNING by Clive Law)

"Stencollector" in Manitoba has a BSA No. 4 Mk. I (T) with a Canadian C/|\ (arrow inside the C) and this is the only one that I am aware of. One BSA was found with a Canadian marked M1907 sling on it but there were no other indications of Canadian ownership seen. I was able to work a deal for that sling and I now have that sling on a Long Branch No. 4 Mk. I* (T).

A number of Canadian military museums, such as the one I am Curator of, have British No. 4 Mk. I (T) rifles in their collections, but most were likely donated by people who had bought them surplus. I know this is the case for the mismatched one in our 12 Service Battalion Museum. Sadly, wartime photos do not show the serial numbers :-( but both Mk. I and Mk. II cocking pieces can be seen.

The Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry (PPCLI) Museum in Calgary has a British No. 4 Mk. I (T) but I do not know what, if any, provenance for it. It is rifle AQ2892 with matching No. 32 Mk. I HBM Co scope # 4376 The Mk.I modified backsight had been removed. I have an autobiography of a PPCLI sniper section commander who wrote that the Commanding Officer ordered him to take a sniper rifle which has been used by the battalion in WWII, out of the museum and to take it to Korea with him and put it to good use. I have not been able to find out if this AQ2892 / 4376 is indeed that same rifle. WE cannot assume that it is unless the records are good, and old military museum records are notorious for their lack of detail, if they even exist.

Back in Canada in late WWII, in peacetime and then in the Korean War, Canadian made sniper rifles were issued to Canadian troops.

I agree with Roger Payne about the bracket in the Dutch museum being numbered to a 1943 BSA made No. 4 Mk. I (T). I too am puzzled by the three rather than four numbers following the letters as every other case I have recorded has 4 numbers e.g. AV0173, AV0189, AV0192, AV0210, AV2240, AV2281, AV2287, and AV2293.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seaforth72

I have an autobiography of a PPCLI sniper section commander who wrote that the Commanding Officer ordered him to take a sniper rifle which has been used by the battalion in WWII, out of the museum and to take it to Korea with him and put it to good use. I have not been able to find out if this AQ2892 / 4376 is indeed that same rifle.

---

Yes, there was a plaque attached to that effect when the rifle was still in the old museum. He had used the rifle in WW2 apparently and turned it in after, then when Korea started up he went to the museum and drew it to use during hostilities until returning it again after. As you say though, I have no PROOF either, except the museum records.

Thanks for the interest shown and off course the knowledge imparted. It would be interesting to know if there were other 1943 BSA's with similar low serial numbers. I suppose it is possible that the stamping on the bracket just wasn't completed for some reason. Unfortunately, there is no proof that the bracket was the original, although I think it very unlikely that the scope would have been found without a bracket attached. The story also implies that the scope had never been used as a rifle scope following its discovery, making it more likely to be the original bracket. This is of course conjecture.