collecting by war/region

A lot of people will hate anyone who collects a "Nazi" or "axis" weapon no matter the reason for it. Its considered generally retarded and dumb as hell by normal people.

But here is a question for everyone, if its "evil" to collect a german rifle or pistol from ww2 because it MIGHT have been used to shoot a jew or gypsy, but NOT because it was used to shoot an American,,,,,

then why is it acceptable to go ga-ga and purchase Vietnam production and Vietnam issued Chinese SKS rifles that WERE used to commit atrocities on American forces?

Yes, completely. Guns are things, they do not kill. They are used to kill. That makes all the difference in the world.

you don't seem to be getting it,,,,

if its evil to collect an old surpluse german rifle that MIGHT have been used to shoot a gypsy or jew in ww2, then how can it be GOOD to buy a Chinese sks that WAS used to kill American troops in vietnam

Who says it's evil? As collectors we look at the firearm as a tool, not a weapon....an important link in our evolutionary history.


I lost 2 uncles in Malaya....But that doesn't stop me buying Japanese cars.

That’s it. It’s not evil. It is stupid to think that way. When people start with such arguments I politely change topic or cut it off if they insist. No one is intelligent enough to make a stupid understand his stupidity...

The prices would not indicate that K98s and Lugers are considered more evil than Chinese SKSs.

...unless evilness is worth a premium!
Looking at Party Leader PPKs, maybe it is!!

Pocketshaver,

Surely Milsurps covers ALL spheres of weaponry of Military Surplus, thats what this sites all about, and thus its name.

Many countries weapons have been responsible for being used to defend ones rights, and some used in some really bad situations, as you will be aware of, living in the States and its history of the 2nd Amendment of a Right to Bear Arms.

I am sure many gun owners on here and other sites hold weapons that have been used in various wars and conflicts around the world, and might not know their individual history.

I will add as an ex Military man and ex Police Officer, a weapon is fine in the hands of a trained user, it is that user that makes the decision to fire it, not the weapon?

So in short not really sure what your point is?

The only people I ever hear or see calling NAZI items evil are idiots that don't know or understand history. They are usually leftists that left to their own ends actually are guilty of a lot of the things the NAZI's did. People are evil, items are not, symbols are not, it's what people use those items for or symbols for which are evil, not the items themselves. The swastika for example is a symbol of good luck around much of the world or at least it was until Hitler decided to adopt it for his purposes.

I own a token from the 1933 Worlds Fair in Chicago that has a swastika prominently displayed on it.

There are a lot of people in the world that have little to do so they look for things to be offended by. It seems to give them purpose to get through the day. Doesn't make their opinions valid. If you allow them to control these things, once the conquer one, they will find another.

I put on presentations and while it is not a common question, it does occasionally come up. Do I know if any of the rifles I have killed anyone. The answer is obviously no but the odds are high that several in my collection have although which ones is impossible to say. Follow up question is usually, does it bother you and again, the obvious answer is no, not something I dwell on. The knowledge that it is possible is there but it doesn't change anything. There are going to be people out there that will say they could never own something that they thought could have killed someone but those people aren't coming to my presentations.

What I see as evil is the attempt to hide or change the historical record or in extremes, outlaw all references to it. I'm disgusted with the attempts to destroy the history and symbols of the Confederacy here in the US and the same efforts Germany has made concerning the NAZIS after the war. We are supposed to learn from past mistakes, not hide from them and simply because an event happened, that doesn't criminalize the entire population involved.

+1. Perfect!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pocketshaver

A lot of people will hate anyone who collects a "Nazi" or "axis" weapon no matter the reason for it. Its considered generally retarded and dumb as hell by normal people.

But here is a question for everyone, if its "evil" to collect a german rifle or pistol from ww2 because it MIGHT have been used to shoot a jew or gypsy, but NOT because it was used to shoot an American,,,,,

then why is it acceptable to go ga-ga and purchase Vietnam production and Vietnam issued Chinese SKS rifles that WERE used to commit atrocities on American forces?

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Why is it acceptable to buy a Trapdoor Springfield when it could have been used to genocide the natives? Why is it acceptable to buy a Krag knowing it could have been used to murder Filipinos? Why is it acceptable to buy Lee Enfields knowing that they could have been used to kill the Boers? Why is it acceptable to buy a Japanese rifle, knowing it could be complicit in all the atrocities they committed in WWII. Why is it acceptable to buy a M1 Garand when it could have been used to commit war crimes in WWII (or anywhere it served afterwards)? Why is it acceptable to buy a Vietnam M16 parts kit knowing it could have been used in the My Lai Massacre or any other atrocity committed by the Americans in Vietnam?

Everyone, and I repeat EVERYONE has some darkness to their nations history. Pretending that you don't is a ignorant thing to do. Some were more overt than others, but ultimately everyone has some sort of dark tale, its a factor of us all being human.

Collecting takes many forms. People might collect Nazi items to remind us of the atrocities they committed. They might collect it because they are interested in that history (it is a fascinating time period/subject, if it wasn't there wouldn't be so many books/shows/movies, etc. on it). People might collect it because they are interested in the arms development. And I am sure there is tons of other reasons as to why they might collect Nazi items.

Personally my collection is mainly Swiss and WWI era Bulgarian. Why? I like the Swiss craftsmanship and their history. I also like WWI Bulgarian history as they played a large part in WWI which is often forgotten. Recently I have been thinking of collecting action types. Why? Because recently I have been getting more interested in the quality of the manufacturing/design of firearms and variety is the spice of life. Ultimately I don't have to justify why I collect what I collect to anyone. Its a personal decision. If they don't like the type of stuff I collect, that's too bad. I don't tell others what to own, just as they don't get to tell me what to own.

Something else going on here guys.................................... If pocketshaver is having a pang of conscience over weaponry, I for one don't mind helping out, but opinions are like backsides, everyone has one, and most are not going to appease him it appears.
So left thinking what is this thread about, if we collectively "don't seem to be getting it"??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

I own a token from the 1933 Worlds Fair in Chicago that has a swastika prominently displayed on it.

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Helped a friend identify a US boy scout good luck token dated 1910 he found while relic hunting nearby. Swastika prominently displayed on the back.
The swastika was long considered a sign of good luck until misappropriated by the Nazi regime. Obviously it is the use of the symbol/tool not the symbol/ tool itself. Lots of folks have been killed with hammers. When is the last time anyone recoiled at the sight of a hammer? Anyone who attributes evil to an object is looking to be offended and taking a simplistic view driven by the intellect of, well a hammer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pocketshaver

you don't seem to be getting it,,,,

if its evil to collect an old surpluse german rifle that MIGHT have been used to shoot a gypsy or jew in ww2, then how can it be GOOD to buy a Chinese sks that WAS used to kill American troops in vietnam

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Not sure I'm getting it either but this is how I see it...
Contrary to what some might say there is nothing inherently evil about collecting (buying) an old surplus German rifle that MAY have been used to shoot (murder) Jews or Gypsies in WW2.
What would be evil is collecting (buying) that same rifle with the intent of shooting (murder) Jews or Gypsies in the present or future.

By the same token, theres nothing inherently good about buying a Chinese SKS that WAS used to kill Americans in Vietnam. Just like the German rifle, it's all in the intents and purposes of the buyer that would make the purchase of either one good or evil.

Inside every good liberal-progressive-hypocrite is a tyrant just waiting to get out! With this current pandemic crap, it's coming out of plenty of them on both sides of the aisle. I apologize in advance if this is too political! Unfortunately, it's just fact.

Brian, No worries from this call sign, just wondering what the hell I am missing here, or is this a massive wind up? ;)

As I noted earlier, we have people that just want to be offended by things so they have a purpose in life. These people through the power of social media now can be much more vocal, and much more prominent than they were in the past. So now it is against their policies to allow any item with a NAZI or Confederate symbol on it to be shown on Facebook or sold on eBay. Yet these same entities allow actual present day groups that are little more than terrorists post their garbage and sell their stuff right and left with no restrictions. Doesn't make a great deal of sense.

The liberal-progressive-hypocrites that own Ebay, PayPal, Amazon, Facebook and more have zero interest in knowing, preserving or studying factual history which is what we all do whether we realize it or not. Their agenda, besides collecting money from the people who live on those sites, is to rewrite history to their tastes and further their agenda of dividing and conquering the ignorant masses which is what this thread is all about. That way someone can always be offended by something petty someone else is doing at all times. For example: if you collect Nazi weapons and militaria you're a right wing extremist. If you collect Confederate memorabilia and weapons you're a racist and on and on and on. This helps their cause. I've found that ignorance doesn't come naturally. It's a choice because I know so many folks, many very well educated, including ones in my own family who just refuse to pay attention to anything that entails looking past their own noses and selfish little lives. I'll apologize again but it's just another fact. Knowing full well that I'll never get rich in this business, I decided a long time ago that I would stick to my principles and NOT patronize these outfits. That being said, I had to join Amazon to order a gallon of raw linseed oil so that tells us how powerful they are. I also use Google all the time and they are also part of the problem. The whole tech industry is. Of course, when my credit card expired, Amazon sent me a nastygram about renewing my membership which I ignored. Anyhow, that's my take after paying attention to this crap since the beginning of the computer age. Enough said by me. I'll shut up now and put my German Luftwaffe Paratrooper helmet on just in case I offended anyone! Yes, it even fits!

Seems we have created an entire generation of people just waiting to be offended !

For those troubled by moral and intellectual confusion, this may be a good time to binge watch Prof. Jordan Peterson videos.

I collect WW2 German military items but I don't collect or purchase explicitly Nazi items. There is a difference between the two but in some instances it can be fine. I don't say that others shouldn't collect Nazi items but I have no wish to collect explicitly Nazi items myself. I don't wish to attend an event, to be greeted by a fellow participant dressed as an officer in the Gestapo but, again that is a personal preference and I wouldn't go home as a result.

Its like merely stating that the 24 hour a day bombing on german cities was fine and dandy because it helped us win the war, but that the overall insignificant luftwaffte air campaign aka battle of Britain was this horrendous affront to humanity. And then quietly over looking the Dresden Bombing Raid that ENGLAND did as retaliation...

---------- Post added at 09:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 PM ----------

Or for condemning the Uboat campaign in WW2 as super evil, even though EVERY ALLIED NATION used the same tactics

War is like a Game of Football, testosterone, means someones got to win, a draw will not cut it!!:surrender:

My father experienced the horrors of war for the first time in April 1940. 6 people died, 4 Germans and 2 British with well over 100 injured. A few months later he was injured himself, mental and physical, in an air raid in which 4 people died. He was 6 years old. He also witnessed a spitfire pilot die in his cockpit after he had crash-landed in a field. My father and teenage friend were unable to help the pilot get out of the aircraft because it was an inferno with the aviation fuel on-board on fire, in addition ammunition still on the aircraft was exploding due to the heat of the fire.

My father's recurring nightmares lasted into the mid 1970's. He received no medical help whatsoever for his mental injuries but he did recover from them by talking about his experiences to his family.

My father bore no grudge against the German people and during the early 1950's went out with an Austrian girl whose father had been in the Wehrmacht. Sadly the girl's father had died in the war.