Smle night sights

Second post in two days on obscure WWI smle accessories. Alright, does anyone have any information on the history of the WWI smle night sights. They were quite widely issued during the first world, yet they seem to have fallen into relative obscurity since. There were a number of styles, I know specifically of two, but little information has been published on them. It seems after the war they were scrapped, and that the survivors seem to turn up in odd places. All I really know about them is from a few pictures online and Ian skinnerton's book.

Got this about 10 years ago on ebay.
Sorry about the shadow.

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Originally Posted by 303 Collector

Got this about 10 years ago on ebay.
Sorry about the shadow.

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Wow! That's amazing, I've only ever seen that variant in relic condition.

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Most of them seem to be the other style of a flip up front sight, and brass rear sight notch with luminous paint.

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If you don't mind me asking do you remember what country it shipped from?

nice pick up

These luminous sights come in three parts, the rear part is clamped onto the rear sight, it can only go in one place. The front is in two parts a spring assembly and the front sight assembly. The front sight protector has to be removed as well as the front sight element, the luminous front sight element is then fitted in its place along with the spring assembly which when in place will hold the luminous post in place either up or down so that the normal sights can be used during daylight. These sights lost their "shine" many years ago but even when they did work I think if you actually hit something using them it would be more by luck than judgement, rather like shooting in the dark!!!!

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Originally Posted by Buccaneer

These luminous sights come in three parts, the rear part is clamped onto the rear sight, it can only go in one place. The front is in two parts a spring assembly and the front sight assembly. The front sight protector has to be removed as well as the front sight element, the luminous front sight element is then fitted in its place along with the spring assembly which when in place will hold the luminous post in place either up or down so that the normal sights can be used during daylight. These sights lost their "shine" many years ago but even when they did work I think if you actually hit something using them it would be more by luck than judgement, rather like shooting in the dark!!!!

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Yeah, I've always wonder how well they work. Thanks for the pics, awesome set.

Here is some research I put together on these sights a couple of years ago on gunboards...

The sights are quite rare, so rare in fact it might be very difficult to put a value on them. One point I have to mention, I have seen a short discussion about these before and it was unsure as to what the material was in the sight.. Age would suggest radium. This stuff is highly dangerous, like early glow in the dark watch faces and compasses. At the very least we need to determine somehow what they were made of and if there is a danger present. I will go through the List of Changes later this evening and see what I can find out. In the meantime if anyone reading this has any input, please chime in.

I have confirmed in TLE that if they are "Sights, Luminous, No. 1 Mk. 1 fo0r R.S.M.L.E. MarkIII." then the sight is, (by the description) "Rendered luminous by a Radium compound"

Here's a quick copy- paste from wiki

"Radium is a chemical element with symbol Ra and atomic number 88. It is the sixth element in group 2 of the periodic table, also known as the alkaline earth metals. Pure radium is almost colorless, but it readily combines with nitrogen on exposure to air, forming a black surface layer. All isotopes of radium are highly radioactive, with the most stable isotope being radium-226, which has a half-life of 1600 years and decays into radon gas. When radium decays, ionizing radiation is a product, which can excite fluorescent chemicals and cause radioluminescence.

Radium, in the form of radium chloride, was discovered by Marie Curie and Pierre Curie in 1898. They extracted the radium compound from uraninite and published the discovery at the French Academy of Sciences five days later. Radium was isolated in its metallic state by Marie Curie and André-Louis Debierne through the electrolysis of radium chloride in 1910.

In nature, radium is found in uranium and thorium ores in trace amounts as small as a seventh of a gram per ton of uraninite. Radium is not necessary for living organisms, and adverse health effects are likely when it is incorporated into biochemical processes because of its radioactivity and chemical reactivity. Currently, other than its use in nuclear medicine, radium has no commercial applications; formerly, it was used as a radioactive source for radioluminescent devices and also in radioactive quackery for its supposed curative powers. Today, these former applications are no longer in vogue because radium's toxicity has since become known, and less dangerous isotopes are used instead in radioluminescent devices."

That's one of the reasons why my set stays in its cardboard box out of the way.

Roger,
I bet you have an original FLANDERS FLAP too!! So rare these days.
If members don't know what I am talking about just ask?

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

That's one of the reasons why my set stays in its cardboard box out of the way.

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Ditto...

I've just been doing it for a long time Gil.........on the law of averages you get lucky once in a while!

FLANDERS FLAP
Another piece (if original) worth collecting. Designed to keep the mud of the poppy fields out of your barrel.

Thanks for all they help, I really appreciate it. You guys have some amazing peices.

............and we feel 100 sometimes too :lol:

These sights are much more accurate to use than you would expect. Not made for long distance sniping, but battle sight ranges. It is much easier to shoot reasonably accurately in the dark with normal open sights than you would expect. Distances would be relatively close, as you would expect from low light action.

Very innovative for the day!

Try using the night sights while wearing a protective mask. Results could be interesting.

Works quite well because you can see the sights easily through the eyepieces.

I acquired an SMLE with the original night sights from WW1 still on the rifle. The rifle was sent back by a US Army officer in WW1, kept for decades, and eventually sold off by the family. I have posted about it (with lots of photos) here: Got it! Luminous sights on an SMLE? | Gunboards Forums

I actually found TWO sets (front and back) of luminous sights mixed in with a bunch of miscellaneous gun parts at gun show in Raleigh many years ago. I just happened to see one piece whilst digging through and instantly knew what it was (as I had the rifle already). I spent well over an hour digging through the bins and ended up finding two front and two rear sights. They were almost surely used on rifles during the war, as they had legitimate wear. I sold one set to a friend who begged and pleaded for a set, and I have the other set in my parts bin. However, I may end up selling the 2nd set eventually.

There must be some sort of record in having had 3 sets of these in possession at once... ;)

Pictured is one of the sets... I can't recall if it's the one I still have or the one I sold, but both are very similar (though actually made by two different makers).

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