Clip loading the Lee Enfield?

I've got three of the Enfield pattern guns(excepting a US M1917)...and of the three my old crusty SSA SHTLE 1918 is the only one that will load properly with stripper clips. I mean it loads fine...like it's supposed to.

My No.4 Mk.I and No.5 carbine load awful with clips! Almost always get rims interlocked wrong and I do know how to stagger the cartridge rims, plus have tried a couple suggested techniques of manipulating the top cartridge as you cram them in...no good on these two muskets :thdown: They want to be top-loaded one by one. Take the same cartridges and put them back in the same clips and they will zip right into the SSA No.1 Mk.III* in perfect order like every time! :thup:

There must be some magazine tuning or tweeking issue I'm neglecting on the No.4 and No.5 Lee Enfields. They feed cartridges fine once loaded by hand. Mag boxes themselves appear good/serviceable with no obvious defects(to speak of). The issue has stumped me for years.

Are there and tips or suggestions on the tuning of magazines for proper clip-loading?

Thanx HT

chargers not stripper clips, the outer and middle cartridges need to be rims down and rounds 2 and 4 rims up

Yep done that...many many times...properly staggered cartridges make no difference on the non-charger loading guns

Use the left thumb as close as possible to the charger push down vigorously .

If you time it just as you feel the last round leave the charger clip move the thumb pressing on the top cartidge forward just a smidge it takes allot of practice but once you've done it allot it becomes just natural it stops the rim locking event, we also tried loading the cartridges in another way which seemed to work I never tried it doing it as I always loaded mine the accepted way.

Others loaded them like this; ///// try it and see what you can do, also go through your charger clips and find the easy ones that the rounds slide out of easier.

Here is an interesting YT piece by that jovial fellow, Bloke on the Range.

Like him or not, know him or not, he's knowledgeable and more often than not, got a strong point to argue.

I'll let you be the judge...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOYTdoQkFrM&t=173s

Hmmm...the video gives me hope....I have not used common wealth ammo since the 7.7mm South African stuff ran dry. Been using mostly Remington ball .303....maybe I got rim 'chamfer' issues?

I do think I have some Pakistani ball around here somewhere(yeh..I know all about that smoky nasty no bang slow bang stuff). Perhaps it is an American with American ammo and a British rifle problem!

We shall see....thinking about it I've had 'rim-loc' issues with about every sort of .303 ammo(with the exception of the 1918 short Lee Enfield which seems immune)....maybe I need practice....maybe I need technique....

Thanx guys...I got ideas to work with

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Originally Posted by Havenot

Hmmm...the video gives me hope....I have not used common wealth ammo since the 7.7mm South African stuff ran dry. Been using mostly Remington ball .303....maybe I got rim 'chamfer' issues?

I do think I have some Pakistani ball around here somewhere(yeh..I know all about that smoky nasty no bang slow bang stuff). Perhaps it is an American with American ammo and a British rifle problem!

We shall see....thinking about it I've had 'rim-loc' issues with about every sort of .303 ammo(with the exception of the 1918 short Lee Enfield which seems immune)....maybe I need practice....maybe I need technique....

Thanx guys...I got ideas to work with

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Have you tried the No5 mag in the No4, and vice-versa ?

Can you borrow / beg / steal another mag and try that ?

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Originally Posted by Havenot

maybe I need practice....maybe I need technique....

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Honestly? That would be likely the biggest thing. I knew guys in the army that couldn't do it worth a damm because they just didn't practice. If you get at and work until your hands are sore a few times you'll get it down. All of it... Then do it when you go to the range just to keep practice. Yes, I've had rim lock but not much.

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Originally Posted by 22SqnRAE

Here is an interesting YT piece by that jovial fellow, Bloke on the Range.

Like him or not, know him or not, he's knowledgeable and more often than not, got a strong point to argue.

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That would be Mike Burns; interesting, jovial and a first class shot with many of the worlds service rifles, also a winner of the NRA Historic Enfield match at Bisley.

I've got like four 'chargers' to my name and can only find two. I just went out and tried loading techniques(just charger loading practice not shooting)....did try swapping the No.5 and No.4 mag box around.

Discovered that Rem/UMC 174gr ball will NOT self rectify itself with a whack on the bolt handle as in the video. Simply pushing down on the cartridge stack does nothing to cure rim-loc in my rifles with Rem ammo.

I think my RFI No.4 rifle's mag is well used and fresh painted! It's spring is noticeably weaker than the mag that came with my No.5 BSA.

Loading the cartridges wrong ///// will load the Jungle carbine(with own mag):thup:...but not worth a hoot in the No.4 with it's own mag.:thdown: Going to try swapping the mags and try the ///// rim stagger thing on the No.4 with No.5 mag next. The spring/follower assembly may need replaced in the No.4 magazine.

Actually I may drag my No.1 Mk.III out and see of I can discover why it works fine compared to it's sisters!

Awsome advice so far Thanx

Never had a rim lock in competition shooting. Using chargers too.

Practiced(expermented) some more at charger loading. Yes...I can now load the No.5 by charger with near perfect success using CINDERS advice of staggering the rounds ///// ....reminds me of a clip of 8x56R ready to stuff in a Steyr carbine!

The RFI No.4 can be loaded the ///// method too with way better success than a regular loaded charger...still iffy though. :madsmile:

I tried to fob loading the No.1 and it's hard to do....I tried to rim-loc it and the old SSA won't....it works like the guy's No.4 in the video...just won't rim-loc...loads/feeds awsome :dancingbanana:

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Originally Posted by Strangely Brown

That would be Mike Burns; interesting...

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Good grief, SB, I thought Mike was just 'Bloke,' as his mate is The Chap! Aaaawww, this finding out stuff isn't always that great. Bit like the Easter Bunny and Santa... :p

He is a pretty fine shot, many of his vids are made on his various competition visits across Europe. He can't be a dud if he spends that much time and money in training for them. An easy to follow teacher, too. Much credibility as he does often state his limitations in knowledge. A rare and admirable quality.

"If you get at and work until your hands are sore a few times you'll get it down. All of it... Then do it when you go to the range just to keep practice." browningautorifle

That is the secret practice practice then more practice I have 10 dummy rounds I made up no powder or primer and a good heavy neck crimp and use those when a comp is coming up a few nights prior to the event with the rifles I will be using.

That constant use also breaks in your clips...wears the finish inside.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

That constant use also breaks in your chargers...wears the finish inside.

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Small amendment.

Sorry - CDO (Its like OCD but better as all the letters are in alphabetical order)

polish the inside of the chargers there could be a bit of rust or crud not letting the brass slide easily

For competition, I like the ///// method. I rarely ever have any problems. I think the secret to the _-_-_ method is to push the cartridges as far down into the magazine as your thumb will go and the should self align.

I'll stick with the ///// method.

Walter

I have several chargers that were chrome plated at Rolls Royce Cars and they work beautifully even better than those that have been polished. Perfect for the mad minute!

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Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield

Small amendment.

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If you like, thing is I don't care because I got over that. We learned to understand what people were talking about instead of correcting them endlessly and uselessly.

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Originally Posted by Patt14 No2

I have several chargers that were chrome plated at Rolls Royce Cars and they work beautifully even better than those that have been polished. Perfect for the mad minute!

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Once described to me as "racing" chargers; not exactly in the Spirit of the Original though! ;)

I like that guy a lot. Seems like a very nice person.
And always interesting!

Ovidio, yep, a real personality shines through easily. Like Rob, the Canadian that wears the skirt and likes muzzle loaders and black powder. You spot authenticity and integrity pretty easily, like in those two blokes just as an example. I'd think Ian McCollum (a.k.a. Gun Jesus) would be of a similar personality. Very much the type you'd enjoy a beer with! ;)

A memorable quote from years ago when the interwebs were in infancy, that I cannot forget.

"Stripper clips are what exotic dancers wear on their nipples". Apologies to the author. I suspect he's no longer with us.

Sorry, I'm just being nostalgic.

I'll never think about strippers or clips the same again!

Attachment 106931
Stripper clips, picture attached....

Charger loading getting rim over jams...
I don’t care who you are or how you load your chargers... it’s all in the technique. I have made a couple of short vids to demonstrate, but I can load charger with every rim over the one below and when they strip into the magazine, they are all ok, no jams.

Sit your rifle in a rest or stand and look down on it from above. The back of the magazine where the rims go is well back from where they leave the charger.

1: Load a charger, and with your thumb as close to the charger as possible, strip the rounds into the magazine.

2: Now, load a charger, and with your thumb a bit away from the charger, strip the rounds into the magazine.

In test one, the base of the case contacts the follower first, tilting it down at the back, the round moves rearward as the next round comes down on top of it- basically it all slides down hill.

In test two, the shoulder of the case contacts the follower, which can cause the rear to lift but it still goes rearward because the follower must dip at the rear. The next round also contacts the one below at with its shoulder, lifting the base, and as it goes rearward the base does not come down until it gets all the way back, past the rim below.

Do it enough and you will see most rounds don’t quite go over, but some will.

Is there any way I can put the two short vids up here without hosting elsewhere?

Pasties are what strippers wear....not clips.

As far as 'charger loading'.....I looked and looked for my other two chargers....I found a huge quanity of brass Mauser clips(off '42 Turkish 8mm)...I found a sadly mutilated SMLE complete mag which I bought years ago and discovered somebody had trimmed the rear locking tab off to fit a No.4 rifle but trimmed off too much and won't work in anything now....found M1 clips, M1 carbine clips, M14 clips and AR clips and clip loaders, Steyr clips, a couple Carcano clips etc. but alas no more British chargers!

It is still a mystery why the two rifles are so persnickety to load...yet the older more used slightly rusty/crusty No.1 Mk.III* loads so perfectly

Glad we have some members who know so much about what strippers wear on their 'chest points'.:)

Yeah!!!

Yes the ///// method works for lazy loading but if you practice enough the \\\\\ method works just as well!