Enfield No4 Sniper Scope Mount alternatives

Question.

I see several reproduction Scope Mount Brackets for the No4 Mk1 T and derivatives, all based in a 1" Scope tube.

I can find nothing with a 30mm or 34 mm scope tube and i'm wondering is anyone has ever done something like that. ??

Additionaly I am wondering if there is a bracket that fits the pads on a No4 T / L42 but places a Picatinny Rail above the Action / Reciever and Boreline.

The reason I am asking is that I use a Burris 1-8x24 XTR 2 on my DPMS G2 and would love to mount the same scope on a No4 Mk1 , it has a 34mm Tube. Failing that I have an S&B 1.5-6x24 S&B with Ranging Reticle and BDC Turrets that would also be well suited.

One way or another I'd like to get either scope attached.

Does anyone know of something along this lines, or do I have to start from scratch with Solid Works ?

Any Ideas any one?


Thanks in Advance.

For starters you would need to place shims in between the cradle pieces until the inside measurement is 1 inch in both the horizontal and vertical axes. Then you could have the rings bored to whatever inside dimension you want - there is plenty of material in the repro. Mounts.

Hi Jim. I guess i'll have to buy a set and see, i was hoping that some one might have already made something similar, at least in 30mm.

To my knowledge no one has done a No.4(T) bracket with a Picatinny rail built in. Using NATO STANAG rings, such as EAW used to make, with an IWS bracket was one option some people pursued.

Nor has anyone done a standard bracket with 30mm rings rather than the standard 1". The issue would be ensuring adequate clearance for the scope diameters, particularly the objective lens housings which can vary widely of course.

I'm looking to mount the Burris scope as i suggested, this has a 34mm tube. its not got a huge objective as the tube is 34mm straight through to the front end, that shouldn't be a major headache to get mounted. I
d like a dedicated bracket for it.. but I'd settle for something i could mount a picatinny rail on to. If i can't find something available, which im still hoping, i'll crack on and make my self something suitable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pete110119

Id like a dedicated bracket for it.. but I'd settle for something i could mount a picatinny rail on to. If i can't find something available, which im still hoping, i'll crack on and make my self something suitable.

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Just use one of these?

https://www.fultonsofbisley.com/fire...eld-rifles-sr2

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

To my knowledge no one has done a No.4(T) bracket with a Picatinny rail built in. Using NATO STANAG rings, such as EAW used to make, with an IWS bracket was one option some people pursued.

Nor has anyone done a standard bracket with 30mm rings rather than the standard 1". The issue would be ensuring adequate clearance for the scope diameters, particularly the objective lens housings which can vary widely of course.

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There is a T owner in NZ that has had made a mount that fits just like the original that has a pic rail. He uses this mount and late model scope at the range and uses the original mount and scope at displays.

Bindi 2. that is pretty much My Intention . I will use the rifle for hunting on occasion, some fun on the Range and i would like the benefit of modern optics But i still wann to be able to swap back to the original scope. I will probably cnc something up.. But i do have a Crazy Idea to get My hands on a 7.62 enfield Action and build myself a modern L42 clone with Carbon Fiber Stock and a 3D printed titanium scope bracket.
Gee Ram.. nah that’s not the direction I’m looking at..

Pete one thing I did notice the hockey stick part of the mount was well drilled out to either allow some flex or to lighten the mount I don't know which or why. I also don't remember if it was one piece or two piece pic rail. Who ever did the job was no beginner. I have some photos some where. Will have a bit of a Cookie.
Full length. will see if I can post up the photo. Don't hold your breath.

There's a fairly simple and cheap option: buy a reproduction base, mill off all or most of the existing ring "cradles" and braze/screw/silver solder/TIG weld on a steel Picatinny rail.

A good first step in that process would be to find some cold rolled 1" "half oval" bar stock and braze/screw/silver solder/TIG weld that into the existing lower ring "cradles" to produce a solid flat surface that can be milled to whatever level is required.

Or simpler yet, zip-cut a couple of short chunks of 1" CR bar into some home made "half oval".

aye, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I'm hoping to have a rifle here soon to start trying stuff on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

There's a fairly simple and cheap option: buy a reproduction base, mill off all or most of the existing ring "cradles" and braze/screw/silver solder/TIG weld on a steel Picatinny rail.

A good first step in that process would be to find some cold rolled 1" "half oval" bar stock and braze/screw/silver solder/TIG weld that into the existing lower ring "cradles" to produce a solid flat surface that can be milled to whatever level is required.

Or simpler yet, zip-cut a couple of short chunks of 1" CR bar into some home made "half oval".

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The problem with this idea is the scope height of the finished mount will be to high.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bindi2

The problem with this idea is the scope height of the finished mount will be to high.

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Hm, well let me see...perhaps cut the rings off entirely and attach a piece of flat bar lower down?

But just how low can one go? ;)

Would and IWS mount work? It has (an admittedly non pic) rail you could add some rings to

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bindi2

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Full length. will see if I can post up the photo. Don't hold your breath.

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Have you seen this Demo? or are you too blue in the face from waiting?

I cant get them out of picasa:banghead:

Pete,

If you do find/manufacture something that will fit the repro mounts, please post the pics! That would be interesting to see.

If you consider mounts that install on the action, there are a couple different ideas that may work for you to fit larger tube scopes. Both are NDT, so no additional holes and easy to install/remove as needed. These are very sturdy mounts with no strength/longevity issues that I have found. But they are a LONG way away from Germany.

I have an Addley Precision mount on my partial "T" that works great. The rifle has its original cheek piece so the scope is 'right there' when I pick it up. Unfortunately it came to me with only the front scope pad, but without the rear pad in place, the mount fits perfect. The version I have is an older Weaver style no-drill mount and currently wears a 30mm Nikon PROSTAFF. It doesn't look anywhere near original to the 'knowledgeable ones' but its not bad!! The newer version of this mount has a picatinny rail.

On my regular No 4, I have an S&K mount with their Insta Mount proprietary 1" rings. I use a 'strap-on' cheek rest with an extra piece of foam to get the right height (pretty well same height as the Addley.) This doesn't really look great but it fits well and doesn't come loose or need regular tightening.

S&K also carries the same mount but with a Weaver rail so depending on the choice of rings, you could likely fit a 34mm scope and come up with something on the stock to get your eye up to level.

A couple different ideas for you..

Good luck with the project.

Kermode

Hello Kermode..

The Bodge it and Leg it way would be to purchase a bracket, cut of the lower ring or mill them to suite and WIG some 34mm rings in place.. which is probably the easiest way to get a functioning bracket in 34mm.

I doubt that there is enough material to enable boring the 1" out to 34mm,, maybe to 30,, but not 34.. so i doubt that is a suitable route to follow.

The proper way to do it is to take measurements from either an original or an aftermarket bracket and from the scope, punch the keyboard into solid works and then write the program and manufacture some.. But thats time consuming..

I'll get there one way or another, and i'll post up the results here.

Get some angle keeping it as low as possible to the bore mark out then cut out to suit the bracket, fabricate the brackets to mounts pieces then fix to the mount, a line the pic rail to the bore fix. Nothing to it if you have the right gear. :beerchug:

A little secret keep the pic rail as low as you can get it.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../VzAPj96-1.jpg

Or.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../m3vopg1-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../jXQyh5M-1.jpg

Yeah, sort of,, just in pretty

Typical repro bracket. Mount on 1" H&G bar in dividing head and have at 'er.

I had the same idea for a 30mm tube, there’s not enough room between the screws on an RSM mount to go 30mm let alone 34, I’ll fully fabricate one I think, the originals were cast so fine machined finish wouldn’t look right anyway, just need some spare time now

i'm thinking the same, i've a few ideas on how to go about it. Once i get rifles here i will start.

MJ1
The second mount is like the one I saw and used in NZ

The STANAG rings on MJ1s IWS bracket are by A.R.M.S. for those interested.

Hellacious price for investment cast rings that may not even have the inside machined.

Still, at least you don't have to bend the damn things to put them on like the EAW "8 o'clock to four o'clock" rings.:confused:

Probably best to buy a set of high rings with some extra meat on them and machine the "peg" on yourself, drill & tap 1/4" NC and call it good.

While we are at it, do any of the Canadian cousins have drawings for the Griffin and Howe or REL mounting setups?

Being in Oz, I have never seen either in the "flesh", but they appear to be quite robust.

About the most exotic things that I have found during "detention" are a small box of random hammers / cocks for percussion goodies and a small cigar box full of assorted percussion nipples. I vaguely recall they were picked up in a "trade" decades ago, take it or leave it style.

No bulk No 3 bolt-heads or oddly marked SMLE bits, sadly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

The STANAG rings on MJ1s IWS bracket are by A.R.M.S. for those interested.

Hellacious price for investment cast rings that may not even have the inside machined.

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I fond them very serviceable and out six sets only one set had to have a few moments lapping with a stainless 30mm bar.

But that was just my observation.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../pi07U79-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../ZXnLniW-1.jpg



Cheers

Those A.R.M.S. rings look like they may have been made by a technique called Direct Metal Moulding. Millet have been using the technique on their scope accessories for at least fifteen years, possibly longer. Like any method, the big bucks are in the set-up and initial tooling; quantity sales are essential. If you only want ONE, a lathe and a Bridgeport J series and some creative "jigging" will do nicely. It might take a couple of days, but you will get what you want. If you want a thousand in a couple of weeks, a different approach is needed. If you want another thousand in a few more months, take a close look at your "production engineering" and start seeking casting, moulding and CNC shops.

DMM has been around for a few decades and is used to mass produce small parts that will require minimal machining once out of the furnace. if you look closely at some of the tiny parts in an "after-market" 1911 trigger and sear set, you MIGHT see some of the signatures of DMM, which, unsurprisingly, look like some of the signature marks on injection-moulded plastic items; be they model aircraft or parts for your car.

The products sometimes have mould-lines and "flash", like your basic old Airfix or Frog kit did, years ago, but they clean up quickly; diamond files are a boon.

I had a question.

Bruce, ive a well kitted out machine shop. Manufacturing a mount from scratch, in house will not be a problem.. What i will do is manufacture the mount sans top half of the ring, using a couple of spare ERA TAC ring tops.
3D Printing a mount from Ti64 is tickling me at the mo, but i can't realy warrant the expence investment (we 3D Print sound suppressors)

Here's what an IWS with Weaver/Picatinny rail will get you. Should be quite suitable for scopes with larger diameter objectives, and that's most of them these days.
Notice that the IWS rail is in the forward position and can be moved back a good inch from what is shown in the first photo.
Low Stanag rings without the need for the rail would drop the scope down another 1/2" or so.

For those who may be interested, I'm looking into having some Weaver/Picatinny rails made that will replace the usual Stanag rail on the IWS bracket. It will be a case of remove two screws take the original rail off and screw this one on.

A Picatinny rail would need to be offset about 1/4" to the right to clear the main body of the bracket and leave clearance for rings, so an 11mm rail is another option being looked at.

This should give the lowest and longest possible mounting and eliminate the need to use the rare and expensive Stanag rings.

Will have more info shortly.

Surpmil
I can manufacture them if you have drawings or an example.

Thanks for the suggestion; that might work Pete. We'll see what the local firm says as the inquiry there is in already.

Then, there is the Canadian solution: The Griffin and Howe setup.

A seriously robust-looking piece of kit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz

Then, there is the Canadian solution: The Griffin and Howe setup.

A seriously robust-looking piece of kit.

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The REL type mount is better. The mount slides on from the rear and cannot recoil forward due to the front pin.

The G&H mount slides on from the front and the pins are the lock and the friction of the clamp. So the forces of recoil try to pull the rings off the same way it slides off.

Good point!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz

Good point!

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The REL system mount solves the SSR mount problem that the Swedes (postwar) used the jack screw on the M41B and the Germans tried the vertical lock screw thru the mount.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

Thanks for the suggestion; that might work Pete. We'll see what the local firm says as the inquiry there is in already.

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well let me know if i can help out. I'll be manufacturing a mount to use 34mm scope tubes, with adapter rings to reduce to 30mm soon any how. so an additional bracket type wouldn't be any hassle. I'll probably do a picatinny version too. Stood in the shower earlier i had a strange vision of an Enfield in an L96A1 type chassis.. just for fun.. I made such chassis to fit Howa's and Tikka's so that would be kind of fun... But I want to get this Burris XTR II on the rifle first.. and what a blow in that direction, just found out the other day that Burris discontinued the 1-8x24 XTR II..