Stock finishing

I got my front and rear handguards from Prestigious Wood today. They are very well done and should look great with my original forend. The front handguard has a slight peak to it down the top center. Is this how they are supposed to be or do i need to round the top out? Their website did say there would be some minor finishing and fitting. From what i can see they are very close to being drop in. I just wanted to confirm about the peak before i started on finishing them. I picked up some raw linseed oili for them. I have read that people cut the oil with turpentine or acetone? what do you recommend? It is getting hot her in Vegas. I was wondering if i should let them sit out in the sun after applying the oil. Thoughts?

Pure turpentine is use with linseed oil a a dryer.
Back in the day my method of finishing stocks was as follows. Treat the wood with RAW linseed oil each day for a week or so. Then treat with a mixture of BOILED linseed oil with a small amount of pure turpentine ( Not turps substitute) added to help the treatment dry.

For periodic treatment I made paste of Boiled linseed oil, Turpentine and Beeswax.
There is no need to buy both types of oil, just buy Raw linseed oil and boil the amount you need.

Goof luck.

You won't need turps in Nevada any more than I do in South Carolina. Just apply the RLO, sit it in the sun turning periodically and let the wood soak it up. Buff it out with fine steel wool in small circular motions after the first couple of coats to knock down the grain that will rise and keep applying it until the wood stops taking it in or you're happy with the finish. Use it generously at first, (I apply with a sponge paint brush), and sparingly after the wood starts to absorb it. I use a blue paper shop towel to mop off excess in between coats and just rub it out by hand. You'll be amazed at the result. Enjoy the project.

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Originally Posted by NVGuy

I got my front and rear handguards from Prestigious Wood today. They are very well done and should look great with my original forend. The front handguard has a slight peak to it down the top center. Is this how they are supposed to be or do i need to round the top out? Their website did say there would be some minor finishing and fitting. From what i can see they are very close to being drop in. I just wanted to confirm about the peak before i started on finishing them. I picked up some raw linseed oili for them. I have read that people cut the oil with turpentine or acetone? what do you recommend? It is getting hot her in Vegas. I was wondering if i should let them sit out in the sun after applying the oil. Thoughts?

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Might be a little warpage in the handguard? I would NOT put them out in the Nevada sun before or after oiling, that is asking for trouble IMHO as the heat will be on whatever side is hit by the sun's rays and you will get uneven heating and expansion and possibly more warpage or even splitting.

In the "Wood Goes to War" film which is on this site I believe, the new stocks are shown being immersed in a tank of linseed oil (and perhaps other ingredients?) Then allowed to drip for a while and probably wiped down after.

What we don't know is how long they were soaked in the oil. Unless someone would like to track down a surviving factory worker and ask?

As for the handguard, once you've got the rifle assembled, you could wrap a suitable neutral material around the forend and handguard at that spot and then over that put a strong elastic, bungee cord or similar to hold the handguards bottom edge down against the top of the forend until it hopefully "settles down" in that position.

Have a look at how the grain runs in the handguard and you may get some ideas on how best to address this. Lots of woodworking info online about ways of correcting warpage of course.

I think No4 handguards are completely round, No1 might have a slight peak- someone with original, good condition wood should confirm that though.

As far as finishing them, I started with 220 grit and sanded the stock, as I got down to around 400 grit, in between passes I wiped the stock down with water and let it dry to whisker the wood. Once it no longer whiskers it will be good and smooth and you can stop sanding. On the advice of the fellows on another Enfield forum, I applied RLO once an hour for a day, once a day for a week, and am now doing it once a week for a month. Then monthly application and a yearly touch-up after that. It appears I can't upload photos from mobile so I'll link to my rebuild thread over there so you can see what it looks like.

Edit: What RLO did you get? A lot of the linseed oils available have extra nasty chemicals to help them dry. I used some organic artists RLO to ensure it was closest to the original and safe to handle.

Wills Rebuilds - Enfield-Rifles.com

You know, I've been finishing wood here to specification for 25 years. I did it in Florida before I moved for 10 years prior to that. I've never had a piece of wood warp setting it in the sun EVER. That includes both new manufacture and original woodwork. The warm dip tank is the original and correct method that was used by REME Armourers since Pontious was a pilot. Not many people have a heated tank full of raw linseed oil nor do they want to afford one. That includes me by the way. You can make the job as ridiculously difficult as you want to. I'm here to tell you that it's not a difficult job. Heat is your friend finishing wood with raw linseed and most other oil finishes. Mother Nature will supply all you need if you're careful. No offense to guys in the PNW and UK but they don't get to enjoy the sun as much as we do. I'll tell you that if your new handguard or forend warps after absorbing heat from the sun, the wood ain't worth a crap anyhow because it isn't properly cured. Anyhow, I have a few steel helmets here to choose from for the incoming. We've beat this subject to death countless times here and I've said my piece. To each his own I reckon.

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Will, you can get RLO by the gallon from Amazon. I use Sunnyside. Only the boiled stuff has chemical driers in it which can be harmful. Real raw linseed oil should be just that.

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Rob, Most factories and big base workshops soaked new woodwork in the heated tank for 24 hours. Then let it drip dry returning the excess oil directly to the tank. Armourers cleaned used wood in boiling tanks of Triclorethane, then judged just how long to soak the wood afterwards in the warm dip tank according to the condition of the wood.

Thanks Brian, I knew there was some form that had driers in it. Good to know that any RLO should be safe when I need to replenish my stores. No offense taken on the sun, we mostly get liquid sunshine up here! At least it keeps us from burning every year.

I found the repro stocks to need a bit of sanding down to remove the occasional "ridge". They are slightly oversized usually to allow this. I sand, apply BLO, then sand with fine wet and dry, to make the past that fills the grain. Then as many thing coats of BLO as you can do, but making sure it dries well between each coat.

Oh yeah, and US BLO has some nasty chemicals in it, so use gloves, and don't breathe it in.

I'll defer to your experience there Brian, though had only read the first post when I replied. I just put an unrelated wooden item out on my deck a few days ago and have been watching it check in the sun, so was on my mind.

And speaking generally, walnut now is not what it was in WWII and before. The lumber we buy today is from smaller trunks, with greater curvatures and probably seasoned for much less time. When that kind of wood is cut, and especially cut thin warpage is more likely than it used to be.

I realize that Rob. I'd hope that these stock makers are using high quality, properly dried timber to manufacture this new LE woodwork. It's not cheap so quality control should be high priority. I also hope all of the guys buying it and fitting it are doing it correctly because it's nice to make your rifle look new but if the rifle won't shoot because the forend isn't fitted correctly, it all becomes a moot point! The old saying is that there are two kinds of wood, wood that's warped and wood that is going to warp...…. eventually. I just cleaned and serviced a couple of CLLE rifles a few weeks ago and was absolutely amazed how straight the forends are so I'm not sure I believe it considering they are 120+ years old!

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Hey Will, what's with the Marine Tex? Ugh!! It's great for bedding Mausers and M14's but Lees? Is the inletting in the new forends that bad? You'd better come on out here so I can show you how to do it correctly! Believe me, if I can do it, anyone can.

Brian,

Well... a little column A a little column B. The area where the draws are is completely open on the new stocks. It's my one main issue with them, and I really just need to message him before I buy another set because I'm sure he'll fix it. I don't feel like my woodworking is up to grafting in blocks to fill the space neatly before fitting, so I went with what I know instead of risking that beautiful piece of walnut. The last small bits come in next week and then I'll shoot it before doing anything on the next one. I'd love to come get some hands on learning at some point though! I've got six No1s and another No4 to do, so I'm not short of projects.

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Originally Posted by Brian Dick

...Armourers cleaned used wood in boiling tanks of Triclorethane, then judged just how long to soak the wood afterwards in the warm dip tank according to the condition of the wood.

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That is some nasty stuff! We used it as a catalyst at (refinery) work. I think it was outlawed as a dry-cleaning agent back in the 60's.


Russ

Thank you for the replies everyone. The stocks i have looks great. They seem straight and do not appear to need a lot of fitting. Mostly just finishing i think. Just for clarification, the peak, or ridge, is very slight and noticeable by hand more so than by eye. It runs down the center from the rear to the front of the hand guard. I guess what i need to know is if this is how the hand guard is supposed to be or if i need to sand it a bit and give the top hand guard a more rounded profile. I picked up the Sunnyside raw linseed oil for it based on other posts I came across.

As far as turpentine use goes i am getting the impression i may not need to use it? It is only used to help speed up the drying time?

Thanks!

Also i meant to ask, will the oil make the stock darker with each added coat? I am curious if this is the method that will allow me to match the forend.

Yes, it will get a lot darker quickly and then darken slowly after the first few coats. Check out the link I posted, it has the new forend and old stock bare, after two coats, eight coats, and after a few days (12-13ish coats?). You can see the color change. As long as it's the same type of wood it should end up matching pretty closely.

Everyone will give you a different approach to this, do a quick Milsurps search and you will find dozens of variations and individual approaches.

The closest I have had to do to finishing a new stock was a NOS M2 Carbine example.

That required fine finishing with P400 grade sanding on a very soft pad and finishing with red scotchbrite.

I cut the first coat of RLO with turps by 50%,this creates depth of finish as the thin viscosity oil sinks in.

I followed up with neat RLO applications for one week, with the stock in a plastic bin liner.

Finally clean off the excess and buff up with a cloth to a semi Matt finish. Finished results attached.

If you haven't worked with wood before, great caution needs to be taken with edges and angles, easy to damage and difficult to put right!

A point that most seem to be missing is that except for "presentation" rifles, precious few No1 or No4 / 5 rifles /carbines left the factory with a hand-rubbed gloss finish.

These thing were meant for battle. If you are slogging through a tropical downpour in a leech-infested rain forest, among the last things you would want is a shiny, SLIPPERY rifle,

Even the post-WW2 No4s that came out of the green waxed wrappers have "texture" on the woodwork. As does the similarly-wrapped replacement wood-work.The old No1 's that I shot in competition on the 1970's were almost BLACK from the amount of oil and "hand-grime" that had been laid upon them, and were in no way "smooth, despite all the handling and shooting.

ALL original wood is made nominally oversized. In the "good-old-days", the wood was STORED in barrels of linseed oil, often for months, before it was fitted. Prime Italian walnut requires a different "regime' from beech, birch, coachwood, etc.

The wood should ALWAYS "overhang" the butt-plate on a properly fitted butt. This allowed for "tidying-up" by armourers if required. For US collectors, take a close look at the fit of the butt-plate on an unmolested M-1 rifle. The butt timber overhangs the steel butt-plate. Same reasoning. See also; your basic "original" K-98.

As for butts, in particular: the originals were made such that the forward end of the wrist that mates with the "ferrule" (socket) on the body, is tapered, as is the matching metal bit. In the factories, there were special presses that drove the linseed oil loaded butt into the ferrule with some force, and held it firmly in place while the bog stock bolt was wound in and torqued up. Note also that once fully seated, there MUST be a small (15-20 thou) gap between the rear of the ferrule and the wrist proper. This is to prevent chipping of the wrist over time.

And a thoughtful, socially distant ANZAC Day to one and all, (Also Kapyong Day for yesterday).

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Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz

A point that most seem to be missing is that except for "presentation" rifles, precious few No1 or No4 / 5 rifles /carbines left the factory with a hand-rubbed gloss finish.

These thing were meant for battle. If you are slogging through a tropical downpour in a leech-infested rain forest, among the last things you would want is a shiny, SLIPPERY rifle,

Even the post-WW2 No4s that came out of the green waxed wrappers have "texture" on the woodwork. As does the similarly-wrapped replacement wood-work.The old No1 's that I shot in competition on the 1970's were almost BLACK from the amount of oil and "hand-grime" that had been laid upon them, and were in no way "smooth, despite all the handling and shooting.

ALL original wood is made nominally oversized. In the "good-old-days", the wood was STORED in barrels of linseed oil, often for months, before it was fitted. Prime Italian walnut requires a different "regime' from beech, birch, coachwood, etc.

The wood should ALWAYS "overhang" the butt-plate on a properly fitted butt. This allowed for "tidying-up" by armourers if required. For US collectors, take a close look at the fit of the butt-plate on an unmolested M-1 rifle. The butt timber overhangs the steel butt-plate. Same reasoning. See also; your basic "original" K-98.

As for butts, in particular: the originals were made such that the forward end of the wrist that mates with the "ferrule" (socket) on the body, is tapered, as is the matching metal bit. In the factories, there were special presses that drove the linseed oil loaded butt into the ferrule with some force, and held it firmly in place while the bog stock bolt was wound in and torqued up. Note also that once fully seated, there MUST be a small (15-20 thou) gap between the rear of the ferrule and the wrist proper. This is to prevent chipping of the wrist over time.

And a thoughtful, socially distant ANZAC Day to one and all, (Also Kapyong Day for yesterday).

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Well said Bruce. Battle rifles not parade ground princesses (bubba jobs) from the factory.

Nothing worse than a gloss finish on a military rifle, it looks bloody awful....

The RLO makes them shiny until you wipe off the excess and give it a few days to finish soaking in. Plus, it makes my old guns smell like my Grandma's house.

When restoring a rifle's woodwork I never aim to make it look like new (unless a punter has specifically asked me to), but to try to replicate what Bruce in Oz referred to as the 'hand-grime' look. It's very difficult because it has been achieved by regular use, cleaning & handling over decades & so can't be readily reproduced exactly. However, you can get close by very sparingly rubbing shXXte into the grain towards the end of the linseeding procedure & lot & lots of gentle rubbing with something ever so slightly abrasive. I favour hessian sacking, if you can find some these days. I think this 'well loved but still looking good' sheen looks much better than 'brand new' on a one hundred year old rifle.

I wouldn't spend money on those repro forends until the maker gets the draws right. They should be a bit oversize, not so short that you have to fill in the gaps with Marintex or any other substance.

Yes, Trichlorethane is nasty but it's also the best cleaner degreaser ever concocted on God's green earth. I had a five gallon container full that I got from a watchmaker friend in Florida many years ago. I worked that small supply for many years until I ran out. t's been banned here for a number of years but is still used in some industries or so I'm told. Can you even imagine working around boiling tanks of it?

I rarely scrape or sand any woodwork. I just clean and reoil it. I'm more concerned with the internal fit and wonder whay these CNC guys can never seem to make them as good as the originals. It befuddles the mind.

As for "smelling like Grandma's place", a lot of Australian wood (Coachwood) appears to have also been treated with Creosote; a whole different smell.

I guess that treatment was to slow down the progress of rot and "wildlife" chewing away at the wood in some of those jungles.

Brian,

Thanks for the input. I passed it along to him and hopefully he changes it - I don't have a lot of hope for finding five more untouched No1 forends without repros. For the one I already bought I'll have to work with what I have.

I have five new old stock fore ends PM me

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

When restoring a rifle's woodwork I never aim to make it look like new (unless a punter has specifically asked me to), but to try to replicate what Bruce in Oz referred to as the 'hand-grime' look. It's very difficult because it has been achieved by regular use, cleaning & handling over decades & so can't be readily reproduced exactly. However, you can get close by very sparingly rubbing shXXte into the grain towards the end of the linseeding procedure & lot & lots of gentle rubbing with something ever so slightly abrasive. I favour hessian sacking, if you can find some these days. I think this 'well loved but still looking good' sheen looks much better than 'brand new' on a one hundred year old rifle.

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I had a look at one of the newly assembled No1mk3*'s that popped up in the UK 7/8 years ago, built up from unused BSA dispersal actions, South African marked NOS barrels, with No4 butts.

It occurred to me with a little gentle fettling to the sharp thick edges and overall finish, it could look 'so' much better.

To my eye, these rifles look way too much like a modern kit car version of a classic car, with the natural charisma of the SMLE killed stone dead...

If I could buy one cheap enough, I would be tempted to rework it as a usable rage rifle, that could be shot without concern to use and made to look a lot nicer.

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

It occurred to me with a little gentle fettling to the sharp thick edges and overall finish, it could look 'so' much better.
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The sharp thick edges is how the came out allowing for some sanding out of damage by impacts etc. I have Lithgows which have been sanded to almost remove the stamps on the Butt that's how much wood has been removed. I have trails rifles that have never been issued. LATE 45 and 53 dated rifles that have seen little use are also proud. These are signs that can be read for the rifles history. I have early Lithgows with their original furniture and 100 plus years of scars. The same dated rifles with replacement furniture with little to no scars just don't look right. Mint early 1900 rifles just don't exist and ones made to look old are easy to pick.

Well I have 'a small quantity' of SMLE barrelled actions in storage & also 'a quantity' of woodwork under my lathe bench, all ready for the time when I finally get round to 'throwing' them together. Most of the metalwork is BSA inter-war, but there are a few very nice tight WW1 dated examples as well. If lockdown carries on for long enough I might even get round to making a start! Busy at the moment getting repro brackets finished off & a few No32's refurbished & ready to sell.

Talking of modifying/prettying up woodwork, not long before they both passed away, Geoffrey Organ got a lot of No4 butts re-skimmed by Colin Moon to SMLE configuration, including the reshaping of the heel of the butt to take the SMLE butt plate. As part of a three way deal he also did a few for me. They wouldn't satisfy purists of course, but are perfectly functional, & look better than an unmodded No4 butt, at least, IMHO.

The purists don't like the No4 forends converted to fit the No5 either even though it was done by the MoD personnel.
Maybe they should have been called No5 Mk1/1

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Originally Posted by Bindi2

The sharp thick edges is how the came out allowing for some sanding out of damage by impacts etc. I have Lithgows which have been sanded to almost remove the stamps on the Butt that's how much wood has been removed. I have trails rifles that have never been issued. LATE 45 and 53 dated rifles that have seen little use are also proud. These are signs that can be read for the rifles history. I have early Lithgows with their original furniture and 100 plus years of scars. The same dated rifles with replacement furniture with little to no scars just don't look right. Mint early 1900 rifles just don't exist and ones made to look old are easy to pick.

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I suppose 'the look' is a subjective thing, obviously none of us would sand or adjust an original rifle, but in my opinion 'very slightly' rounding off the edges
(carefully) will greatly improve the look of a new build.

Other options are available of course 😊