US Winchester Model 12 question.

I recently bought a US marked Model 12 riot shotgun serial no. 9707##. Everything looks correct, Ordinance wheel and WB stamped on stock, Us and flaming bomb stamped below ejection port on side of receiver, flaming bomb mark on barrel and the serial number on the receiver extension matches the receiver. My question is when I was detail cleaning it I decided to measure the barrel. It measured out 18 1/2 inches. The ones I have seen for sale online have a barrel length at 20 inches. Do you think the barrel may have been cut on this. I don’t see any indication that it is and it has sight bead on the end of the barrel. What are your thoughts.

Did you measure from muzzle to breech face or did you measure the length of the barrel once disassembled?

The appropriate way is muzzle to breech face in an assembled firearm.

With the action closed I applied a tape measure down the barrel until it contacted the bolt.
18 1/2 is what I came up with.

Well that is odd. Could you post some pictures of the muzzle and bead?

Here you go. If you want/need another angle just let me know.
Thanks for your help.

I'd say that was definitely shortened some time after it left the factory.
I would expect a brass bead, not aluminum, if the factory did it.

This may just be an artifact of camera angles, but it looks like the bead isn't centered on the top of the barrel. In your last picture, looking down the bore, it looks like the bead is just a bit past 12 o'clock. It appears the same in your third picture.

That’s what I was thinking.
In your opinion how do you think this effects the value of the gun.
I have a lead on a uncut 42 dated un cut replacement barrel.
Would it be worth going down that avenue?

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Originally Posted by rcathey

I'd say that was definitely shortened

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I'd agree with rcathey. The factory beads were WAY smaller, a gunsmith will have a selection of beads, some look like doorknobs. Looks canted too.

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Originally Posted by Bertiii3

I have a lead on a uncut 42 dated un cut replacement barrel.

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That will put it back to corrected and it's what the armorers would do. After another three guys have it and twenty five years time no one will be able to tell.

You don't see many of these sell but I'm thinking the value of an original condition one would be in the neighborhood of $1,500 to $1,800.

What I suspect happened was someone added a Poly-Choke at one point and then someone else removed that and took the 1.5" of barrel with it. This was a common modification after these left military service but I can't find any comparable sales to quote you.

So I'm gonna guess. I'd wager the barrel chop cuts a solid $700 off the value. Maybe more.

If you went the barrel replacement route, I'd remove the chopped barrel from the barrel extension and insert the new one. This isn't impossible but it's more work. The serial number is on the extension so you'd be able to keep the serials matching. That's your best bet for retaining value.

What are they asking for the barrel?

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Originally Posted by rcathey

I'd remove the chopped barrel from the barrel extension and insert the new one. This isn't impossible but it's more work. The serial number is on the extension so you'd be able to keep the serials matching.

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Yes...make sure your guy knows he can't leave marks.

I can get the barrel with out an extension around $125.
The unknown for me is the cost of having it swapped out
correctly which would be the deciding factor if I go down that road.

That would cost at least a couple hundred. I think that’s a great price for the barrel.
I would definitely go with the rebarrel. I think it would be well worth the cost.

One last question.
Who would you recommend to do this.

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Originally Posted by Bertiii3

One last question.
Who would you recommend to do this.

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You've stumped me now.
Personally, I'd try it myself but I'm an odd duck that way.
Buying the tools to do it yourself would be pretty close to the cost of paying someone else.

Maybe someone will come along with a recommendation of a good 'smith for this type of work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bertiii3

Who would you recommend to do this.

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We have two gunsmiths here that have extensive military firearm experience and understand collectors well... Brian Dick at BDL Ltd https://www.milsurps.com/member.php?u=2818

The other is Chuckindenver, https://www.milsurps.com/member.php?u=5812 Gives you a place to start. As for cost, at least the gun will look perfect after and it'll be fine...the value will eventually catch up.

Thanks for all info. It is greatly appreciated.
I believe I will see if I can the proper barrel for it and then go from there.
Thanks again for the help.