I came across this magazine advertised as a scarce 20 round magazine for a No4 rifle. Your comments would be very much appreciated.
Holt's Auctioneers
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I came across this magazine advertised as a scarce 20 round magazine for a No4 rifle. Your comments would be very much appreciated.
Holt's Auctioneers
Looks like it could be a trench mag for the SMLE not the No4
It's not one of the linley co ones. It clearly has a different style of floor plate. To me it looks like it's for a no4 based on the locking lug on the back. Been watching this one for a while, was hoping to pick it up, or for someone else to so it could be examined further.
Looks made from another magazine, straight to about halfway down, three nicks/dents about quarter way down. Like to have one for competitions.
Thanks for the feedback. I went online and it seems on the balance of opinion, to be for an SMLE. To see it in the flesh would be good, who's going to bid for it? If it's genuine, what's it likely to make, bet it's over £100. I see we're too late to bid anyway.
Thanks again for the feedback guys.
Ian
I think it is for a No.4 - back in the day when Practical Rifle was popular in the UK, the post Hungerford ban of full bore semi-auto rifles resulted in many people using 7.62mm No.4 Enfields with ten round mags. They are not really designed for quick mag changes and many of the courses of fire needed 20-30 rounds on each stage. This led to some experiments to make 20 round mags. Because engagement of the mag is at the rear the extra weight of 20 rounds would encourage the front, non-engaged, part of the mag to drop fractionally - causing feed problems. Eventually we solved this by dropping a bit of weld and filing it square to fit the groove of the trigger guard. This effectively kept the front edge at its correct point because the mag couldn't drop backwards. The little loop on this .303 mag will serve the same purpose. Whoever made it has put some thought into it but I don't think it is an official item. Maybe someone made it for practical rifle comps in the UK in the early 1990's when .303 surplus ammo was still available at about £16/100.
My thoughts entirely Nige. In fact some experimentation took place trying to perfect a 20 round equivalent of the Enfield 7.62mm mag as well. The late Pete Bloom got as far as some prototypes, two of which I still have somewhere.
Agree with Nigel and Roger, the person to ask about these would be Peter Sarony at Armalon!
This is being offered for sale in a sealed bid auction and it is supposed to end on the 11th of June, however as it has already been pushed back twice from its original closure date in April because of the C19 lockdown it might or might not happen, fingers crossed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buccaneer
I've had my 'sealed bid' in for some time, who knows when the 'auction' will actually happen.
A 25% + VAT buyers premium (adding 30%) when added to a £15 postage cost could make this a very expensive magazine.
If they were using .303's rather than 7.62's surely they wouldn't have needed one as you'd be doing it properly and using stripper clips instead...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel
Lee Enfield's don't use 'stripper clips'.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam
This is a bit of a hot topic on which everybody seems to have an opinion.
They are not, and never have been called, "Stripper Clips", and if anybody knows where this name comes from then many of us would love to know (we've heard about a dozen explanations so far).
They are called "Chargers", that is why the Charger bridge on the rifle is so called and why early members of the Enfield family were referred to as "Charger Loaded". Although, we all refer to them as "Clips" more often than we do "Chargers" this is also incorrect as a "Clip" goes into the rifle with the rounds (as on the M1) whereas a "Charger" does not.
07. Charger clips (aka: 5 rounds or 10?) Revised 28/11/17 - Lee Enfield Rifle Association
Small Arms Training - Pamphlet No3 1937
Pedantry at its finest..... :rolleyes:
The point I was making still stands though.
Correct terminology is important - avoids confusion and mistakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam
Its not and dosent.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam
Making mountains outa mole hills ain't ya guys? Regardless to what you choose to call them, chargers, stripper clips, whatever, DO THEY NOT both serve the exact same purpose in the exact same way...and that is to bind individual rounds together so as to facilitate loading of said rounds into the magazine.
Nomenclature is important.Quote:
Originally Posted by vintage hunter
A Rifle No1 Mk3 and a rifle No3 Mk1, both fire 303 ammunition and shoot the 'Hun'. Both serve exactly the same purpose. Both were used concurrently, but they are NOT the same.
Is it unreasonable to expect the use of a common terminology to avoid misunderstandings.
A 'tank of gas' (LPG) in the UK is very different to a 'tank of gas' (gasoline) in the US.
For a time, as a child, I thought that Americans ran their cars on Vaseline (the ointment) because I had miss heard it off a film, Vaseline for gasoline. I couldn't work out why we ran our cars on petrol in the UK but in the US cars were run on an ointment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield
According to the Lee Enfield Rifle Association a Lee Enfield "charger" is not a clip. If that's the case then neither is the M1 enbloc, technically speaking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield
In the U.S., though the term is seldom used, charging a rifle refers to cycling the bolt in order to move a round from the magazine to the chamber, i.e. chambering a round.
In the UK a charger is the thingy filled with cartridges you insert into the charger bridge of a Lee Enfield rifle for the purpose of filling the magazine, in the U.S. a charger is something you plug you smarty phone, tablet, laptop, ect into in order to replenish its depleted battery.
Exactly - a consistent use of the term.Quote:
Originally Posted by vintage hunter
The Lee Enfield 'charger' is fitted into the 'charger bridge' and the result is charging the rifle with ammunition.
The Battery 'charger' is fitted into the 'charging port' and the result is charging the appliance with electricity.
(A 'Charger' is also a large plate / dish and a 'War Horse')
I don't see the difficulty in using the word that the designers, specifiers and users of a piece of equipment gave to that piece of equipment.
Neither do I, but at the same time I dont see the difficulty in some one using a modern, more commonly used word that actually offers a more accurate definition in reference to the same object without being subjected to a lesson in antiquated terminology based on the writings of an organization who doesnt have its facts straight either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield
Well guys, I was speaking to Peter Sarony about another matter last night and here's his answer:
It looks rather as though it was conditioned for a SMLE with the spring tab below the latching tab.
Nigel Greenaway had some prototype 20 rd No 4 mags made, it could be one of his.
We made a small number of 20 rd No 4 mags, Maurice Kanareck still has one and it still works fine.
I would love to have more detail. I really need two of them for practical rifle matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
Daan,
Contact Nigel via a PM on the site mate. He might respond and help you out. Do tell where you are shooting mate I'll be there ha ha, no flying to anywhere at the moment unless you have a good reason!! Still in lockdown here, but I fear it won't be long as long as people don't kick the arse out of the TRUST!!
Will do.
Still in lockdown too. Hopefully start shooting this year sometime, probably about August or September. Loading all I can to be ready when the shooting range is open again.
Sunny South Africa is the place.
Daan,
I measured 38 degress in the garden earlier (4pm) here in the UK so things are on the up.
Mind you Table Mountain must be the place to get that perfect shooters view!
As hinted in my earlier response to this thread - people were using 7.62 No.4's in various configurations (L39A1, L42A1, Enforcer, Parker Hale T4, Envoy, etc). The emphasis here being 7.62 so the 20 round mags were straight and NOT curved. I didn't get involved in producing 20 round .303 mags but I know a man who has produced some formers but they are probably 6 months away from seeing the light of day. They will look like miniature Bren mags.
Well, what I thought was a 'strong' bid in the 'sealed bid auction' was nowhere near.
It went for a price of £184 including 'taxes' and 'add ons'
No way that TIG welding on the base is original... so has been repaired, it looks a lot newer than the rest of it.
I always though magazines were brazed.