Just curious how rare a matching No1 MkI, MkI*, MkI*** or MkI*** is that is not an Irish Contract CR or ER marked in America? If super rare in America what about elsewhere in the world that isn't a deactivated rifle?
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Just curious how rare a matching No1 MkI, MkI*, MkI*** or MkI*** is that is not an Irish Contract CR or ER marked in America? If super rare in America what about elsewhere in the world that isn't a deactivated rifle?
Maybe pedantic but with such similar numbers the use of the correct nomenclature is important.Quote:
Originally Posted by capt14k
There is no such rifle as a No1 Mk1 it was simply a SHTLE 1 ( or 1**** etc) These days often called a MK1 but not marked as such
Picture lifted off Google
Most of the Mark 1*** rifles in the USA are Irish contact, the CR rifles are mixed parts, the ER are mostly original and the G series are not as common.
Years ago I found an all matching BSA 1906 Mark 1*** s/n s over 87176 and without any Irish markings, not common to find and never found another.
Also found a Enfield 1907 ConD 11* still with the early Mark V1 sights and still in 303 cal
To find anything without the Irish Contract is not commonAttachment 108545Attachment 108546
I have an unfortunate (for my wallet) tendency to pick up poor wandering Mk I's whenever they cross my path at a reasonable price. I've yet to come across a non-Irish example.
Does the "Irish contract" prefix make them more or less valuable in the US?
Definitely less valuable, though they are still valuable rifles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying10uk
My friend found this at a remote gun show in Wisconsin and bought it, later sold it to me.
I did find a Mark 1 front hand guard and early magazine. the late Skip Stratton told me some left over Mark 1 actions were also used besides conversions to build the Mark 1 rifles. I have never seen another in the USA in 303 cal.
Any Mark 1 variation without Irish stamps is not at all common in the USAttachment 108548Attachment 108549Attachment 108550Attachment 108551Attachment 108552
Thank you for confirming my observations that most MkI** and variants are Irish Contract in the States. How about in places like South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand?
These are rare in the USA without a doubt. The majority were converted into different configurations or chewed up in WWI. Collectors have imported a few from NZ and Australia (i.e. Queensland Police examples). I’ve seen a few in many years of collecting L.E.s.
In the past year or so one sold on GB for $3K+. Irish guns are not hard to find, though condition usually isn’t the best.
In answer to the question, I would say that the Irish Contract rifles do have a soft spot in the United States and well worth seeking out, because of the sheer heritage of many U.S families with that Irish family connection who emigrated there years before any rebellion or struggle by the Irish Republican Army in 1916. Ireland has struggled against British rule in 1691/1798 and the Easter Rising on 1916. Many of these rifles were in existance then.
IMHO of course I would definately be buying one if I had the heritage, and if I was an American, as they speak history out loud if you find one over there, it would have certainly done the rounds !
Doubt if there are any or more in South Africa. Most of the rifles were commandeered in both world wars to serve in the military or just to prevent rebellion. So they would have been absorbed in the army and updated, refurbished, etc discarded, used up, etc. TerryLee and RobD would know more.
The early SMLEs in South Africa? They are around. Just not particularly common. Here are three which originated locally: T to B, Mk I, Mk I* and II*. Interestingly, the Mk I* is Marked to the Natal Light Horse and thus probably saw service in GSWA.
Very nice group of rifles. I also wondered if there was any No1 MkII variants out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrylee
I know someone who has imported Colonial Mausers from South Africa that he purchased via online auction. I have imported from Finland, Germany, and Canada. It sounds like South Africa is just as easy if not easier to import from. I will keep an eye on the auctions. Any site in particular I should be looking at? Any help is appreciated.
Classic Arms (Witbank): Collectable and modern guns, mail orders auctions
Follow the auctions.
The British Army MUST have left thousands of Lee's in Africa as a whole, what with all the campaigns it was engaged in before WW1.
These early examples, heavily marked with some really interesting Regimental marks must be worth a few bob these days!
I know the Kenyan ones were marked Royal Kenyan Colonial Police as I saw one when I was out there in January as I visited a Tea Plantation still owned by a Brit in the hills and on her wall was a Lee with that stamped. Even the toilet door had an authentic SPECIAL BRANCH sign on it, as her father was the Deputy Police Commissioner at the time of the Mau Mau uprising.
The others in Africa are the Kings African Rifles and the Royal West African Frontier Focre and loads of others, presumably with their initials stamped on the weapons.
The regimental markings on the three rifles concerned: Royal Dragoons, Natal Light Horse & South Stafordshires.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrylee
It went on further afield as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
My brother whilst serving in Hong Kong was asked to put a No.4 on his FAC that was stamped R.H.K.D.F. (Royal Hong Kong Defence Force). The battery armoury it was chained up in had no idea how it got there or who it belonged to; it wasn't even on the armoury register.
A foot note:
A few years later whilst working in Africa Sussex police wrote to my brother and said they were revoking his FAC because he wasn't using his rifles, he asked the RFD who was storing them to send them off for auction....the No.4 went for £14!
Now that must have been a few years ago. Even a shot out one would make £100 :lol:
Well the Irish batch did originally only come to the USA as far as I've read, but that was not the question. In all my auction and listings watching in the USA I've only noticed a couple come up for sale that were not Irish.
I have cogitated about the Irish MkI's a bit and decided I really like them even aside from the Irish legacy. Whether you like the Irish heritage or not or are a purist they are special in one way in that they were British WWI rifles and then were Irish WWII rifles that were actually used. I would guess most other MkI's were personal rifles, or scrap or broken up, or in stores for World War II, except for that one found in Normandy, but the Irish MkI rifles where in active use during the war and that makes them kind of neat for me.
RCS: Henry Lawson wrote a poem about how every man should keep a rifle behind the door.
I think you are over-achieving just a tad, both in quantity and "style".
Nice set!.
Also don't forget the Durban Police marked rifles, those are really interesting!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd