Question regarding the longest sniper kill shot.

I have a question for those more knowledgeable than myself regarding long range shooting.
Regarding the Canadian sniper that is reported to have killed an Islamic State fighter at a distance of 3.5 kms, using a McMillan TAC50.
Would you actually be able to see the target in the scope? Due to the amount of bullet drop; would the target not be off the field of vision in the scope?

Reading Craig Harrisons account of his 2.4 km kill shot, he explains that the target was on the absolute limit of his scope visual. I realise that he was not using the same equipment.
But add 1 km to that; plus the details reported for the canadian shot are a bit sketchy due to operational secrecy. If the bullet is nearly 10 seconds in flight. How do we know someone else didn't shoot the guy closer up?

I have no doubt about the ability and dedication of the Canaduian Snipers; but I would just like to understand the mathematics of the shot.

I'm guessing he had a spotter with optics capable of that reach. And I suspect it probably wasn't a one-shot kill. Gravity, wind and possibly the earths rotation are what you are fighting. The Corolis effect I think it's called. Heck, I don't like driving that far let alone try and hit anything with a bullet. Some true long range shooters will be along I'm sure.

Good spotter. Watch the hits [dust, etc] and aim off. Many meters high. The stuff good snipers are made of.

A ballistic's calculator for .50 calibre M33 ball ammunition shows a drop of approximately 1100 feet at 3500 yards and an elevation requirement of around 350 MOA. Obviously without any known data from event, these are just ball park figures.
To be honest, I don't know much about long range shooting or the specification of the scopes used; but I do find it interesting. How much elevation adjustment do you get in a modern military sniper scope?
At what range would you zero a .50 calibre sniper rifle?
I understand that the "spotter " will have better optics and be able to relay information on point of impact; but can you actually see the target in the rifles scope at that distance if it's 350 MOA below the line of zero (if zero was 200 yards for example)

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Originally Posted by 30Three

A ballistic's calculator for .50 calibre M33 ball ammunition shows a drop of approximately 1100 feet at 3500 yards and an elevation requirement of around 350 MOA. Obviously without any known data from event, these are just ball park figures.
To be honest, I don't know much about long range shooting or the specification of the scopes used; but I do find it interesting. How much elevation adjustment do you get in a modern military sniper scope?
At what range would you zero a .50 calibre sniper rifle?
I understand that the "spotter " will have better optics and be able to relay information on point of impact; but can you actually see the target in the rifles scope at that distance if it's 350 MOA below the line of zero (if zero was 200 yards for example)

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You sure that drop is in feet? Most drops are given in inches, which would still be an improbable 92 ft...

Russ

I got a drop of over 22' with a .50 cal (750gr) at 1000 yds. Check for yourself: ShootersCalculator.com | Ballistic Trajectory Calculator

This shot was just over 3500 metres, which is actually just over 3800 yards (1 metre = 1.094 yards).

Lucky shot IMHO. Blitzed the area with several separate rounds and was spotted until a round got near the target. Easy in Afghanistan with all the dust, but the heat haze would be the compunding factor in all of this at that range, unless it was in the cool of the evening, and his spotter just let the rounds creep up onto target. Seen that done a couple of times with a sharpshooter rifle.

I remember a painter up a ladder several miles from Ash Ranges once, he was hit by a 7.62 round, which did not penetrate his skin but the force knocked him off his ladder. Big enquiry nothing proved, but that was an "unlucky" shot at best!!:lol:

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Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

Easy in Afghanistan with all the dust, but the heat haze would be the compunding factor in all of this at that range, unless it was in the cool of the evening, and his spotter just let the rounds creep up onto target.

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We've had trouble at 900 yrds at Bisley with No.4T's on a very hot day, on the bloody new electronic targets, as with no human marker in the butts the spotters couldn't see jack through the heat haze, and we have no idea where the rounds were going, so gave up.

Means we are limited to booking our long range club shoots when we can book a human marking on the remaining non-leccy targets as those of us old gits with old milsurp rifles are at a disadvantage to those with target rifles.

Longest WW2 sniper kill must be Matthaus Hetzenauer's 1200 yrds with a K98k with 6x scope with BDC only adjustment.

The scope used by Canadians is either (earlier) the Leupold 4-16x40mm LR/T M1 or (later) Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56 PMII. The standard M33 ball is not used. The kills were made with an undisclosed match-grade round specifically developed for the purpose, so we can't actually be sure of the velocity or bullet weight. And yes, ALL long range kills involve a certain amount of luck. However, 3 of the 5 longest confirmed kills to date have been made by various Canadians. They seem to be especially "lucky".

If your outside the rounds ballistic effectiveness then it may well be pot luck as when it is going through supersonic transitioning subsonic it is unstable until it sleeps again.
We have all seen WWII vet Ted Bundy (Dec RIP) with the think its an A5 .308 put 3 rounds into the head of the figure at 1000Yds being a 5" 3 shot group thats 1/2 MOA at that range which is pretty damn awesome.

I saw the burst on another sniper who took out a RH with a Barret S/A fifty aiming ** feet above his head think it was a 3 second flight time against a walking target the shot was at altitude so air resistance would be less he took the RH out with the follow up shot as he was aiming where the target was going to be.

The video of WWII vet Ted Gundy is one of my favourite videos.
After seeing the top US sniper team set up the rifle with body shot's at the 1,000 yard plate and then Ted say's, "I'll just be happy to hit the target" Then stick his 3 shots in the head; it's pure magic!
The young guy's were totally gobsmacked!

Regarding my original question; at 3500 mteres to target;
Would the actual target remain in the visual of the scope? would the scope have enough adjustment to compensate for the bullet drop at that range?
Would you have to reduce magnification to gain if field of vision?

Using the ballistic calculator out to 4,000 yards shows at 3800 yards a bullet drop of over 21000 inches, or around 600 yards. which is shown as around 530 MOA at that distance.
The Schmitt Bender scope metioned above has 65 MOA elevation adjustment acccording to there website.

I don't shoot scoped rifles so don't know the capabilities; so this may appear a dumb question. But worth asking!

The obvious answer to the scope picture range problem is - if you are going to shoot at a couple or three kilometers, you wouldn't zero your scope at 200 yards to start off with. An army sniper would surely have the opportunity to zero the scope at a much longer range, so that the planned final target would still be within the visible range of the scope.

I have not fired at anything like 3.5km, but I have shot a couple of times at 1000 yards with a 45-70 Sharps, using iron sights and a 520 gn bullet. The drop is enormous at that range - something like 35-40 meters. The flight time was also 2-3 seconds, and experienced spotters were able to count "BANG...two...three" and see the dust of the impact, thus enabling me to shift the POI back from the next county to somewhere nearer the target. I actually hit the black a couple of times. Better shooters were slotting them all into the black.

Using my basic "well-oiled thumb" estimates, a rifle firing a bullet of the same order of weight, but three times as fast (similar flight time), ought to have a similar drop (i.e 40 meters) at 3 times the range. And we are talking about a very modern rifle with a BC that must be much better than that of my round-nose solid-lead bullets. In short, I think there might be a "0" too many in those 21000 inches.

So I respectfully suggest that the 21000 inch drop needs to be checked by someone who has the ballistic data.

I confess I really don't know the answer. Is anyone here a member on one of the specialist ELR or sniper's forums, like snipershide? There's probably people out there who've discussed this at length and know the answer off by heart.

Thanks for your input guys. Obviously we need some real data of the bullet to calculate this properly. The figures I quoted were from an online ballistics calculator; after about 2000 yards it drops off real quick.
Standard .50 calibre probably has different ballistics to a special sniper round; but gravity will always remain a constant.

The rifleman who knows his firearm and the ammunition it fires very well, will be able to engage long distance targets by applying the skills learnt as a rifleman and sniper. And allow for minor problems such as distance, bullet drop, wind changes at 1000/2000/3000 meters, heat mirage, movement of the target, bullet flight time, etc.

Takes a lot of skill to be able to hit the target at that distance, it certainly wasn't a fluke.