K98k differences?

Hi there, I have a few questions regarding some minor differences with the K98k. I know about some of the major changes, such as hardwood to laminate stocks, flat butt plate to cupped, milled trigger guards and floor plates to stamped, “H” style to milled to kriegsmodell barrel bands, 10” to 12.5” cleaning rod, addition of front sight hood, removal of cleaning rods and bayo lugs, removal of bolt disassembly disk, etc. My questions in particular are in relation to two of my Russian Capture K98k’s and they are 3-fold.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...800F5563-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...87BD4A9F-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4CC2FF00-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...82D5C02A-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...75914735-1.jpg

1) Why does one bolt removal have a red hue to it but not the other? I’m assuming this is something to do with the Russians.

2) Why does one trigger guard have a small hole in it but not the other?

3) Why is one bolt completely round but the other is flat and checkered on the inside? Based on the markings, I want to say the round one is newer, but I can’t find any info on this.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated. I haven’t been able to find any information on these details anywhere else. Thanks in advance!

Not seen that milled and checkered bolt handle before on a K98k?

Maybe one for the experts on the K98k Forum

http://www.k98kforum.com/

What years and makers are the 2 x K98's?

The blueing differences you see in Figure 1 are the result of bluing salt tank chemistry differences as the tank fluid is used over an extended time- in an industrial setting, not all parts are necessarily blued together, and so some may be used that had this 'plum' coloring. You see 'two-tone' issues with P38s, with the frame and slide showing differences, for example. Sometimes it is also a matter of steel alloying and consistency, although in this case I believe the former to be the cause. Not the Russians.

1938 “S/42” and 1940 “42” both Mauser Obendorf - HOWEVER, as I mentioned they are both Russian captured and the bolts are Russian matching but not original matching. As I understand, some of the bolts on other German firearms were interchangeable so it very well could be from another type and the Russians didn’t care. I’m thinking it may have come from a WWI era rifle as the markings look like they could be imperial eagles.

Anything goes on a Russian Capture. These rifles are built from parts of all makes and eras.

If the subtleties of design changes are to be compared, it is imperative to have original matching rifles from progressive production runs.

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Originally Posted by martin08

Anything goes on a Russian Capture. These rifles are built from parts of all makes and eras.

If the subtleties of design changes are to be compared, it is imperative to have original matching rifles from progressive production runs.

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Yes exactly, that’s why I’m here. I don’t have said rifles, but some folks here might. I’m hoping those folks will recognize these parts on their original rifles and let me know what parts made it onto my RC K98k :)

Having said that, I think I may have found my answers. I believe matthanne1 is correct about the purplish hue. I believe the trigger guard with the hole in it came from a Gew98. And I believe that the flat, checkered bolt came from a WWI era Kar98az. However, I would still appreciate any insight or corrections if I‘m wrong!

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Originally Posted by hurrikane18

Having said that, I think I may have found my answers. I believe matthanne1 is correct about the purplish hue. I believe the trigger guard with the hole in it came from a Gew98. And I believe that the flat, checkered bolt came from a WWI era Kar98az. However, I would still appreciate any insight or corrections if I‘m wrong!

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I was under the impression that the reddish hue was due to high nickel content in the steel... Especially in mid to late war production... That is what I heard years ago anyways... And seems the most logical reasoning to me. Of course over the centuries bluing processes have changed... Usually to cheaper methods. There are several different ways to go about protecting steel... Heavily polishing bare steel, parkerizing, rich bluing, and many more... Some better than others. I agree with the rest of what's been said in this thread.

If you ever get a chance to see a pre-war mauser (pre WW1) most will have an extremely well done finish... Especially if the rifle has been well taken care of. The south American contract Mausers, that were made in Germany are an excellent example of well blued rifles... Very black and blue in sunlight, they are overlooked by collectors. Early k98 rifles are also a great example. They will have this extremely slick, wet looking black finish. Of course as the war went on, the "war model" came into production... Given the many makers of the K98k during the war not all these changes were implemented in all factories.

For the Russians, these k98 rifles were overhauled after the war as with most of their weapons. Non matching numbers is common. I have two k98... One is a Yugo capture and one is a Russ capture... The yugos IMO took better care of these rifles... My Yugos even replaced the barrel on my example at some point. My Yugos capture is an early refurb and lacks any yugo marks, with the exception of a yugo proof mark on the barrel... No crest or producze 44 marking.

What matthanne1 is saying is still found today with some rifles... Especially with modern aluminum framed guns... modern day FN is notorious for having purple hues on their rifles, particularly the m16a2 contracts. And non matching FDE colors for their scar rifles. I have a knight armament co. rail where the lower rail is slightly purple.

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Originally Posted by hurrikane18

Having said that, I think I may have found my answers. I believe matthanne1 is correct about the purplish hue. I believe the trigger guard with the hole in it came from a Gew98. And I believe that the flat, checkered bolt came from a WWI era Kar98az. However, I would still appreciate any insight or corrections if I‘m wrong!

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I think you've got that correct.

A lot of Kar98az have been fitted with K98k bolts, and so you may get an offer of a trade from such a Kar98az owner if you advertise in the right places, although, your's being a RC it will pressumably have a USSR applied electro-etched serial number on it, which will devalue it somewhat in that regard.

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Originally Posted by GeeRam

I think you've got that correct.

A lot of Kar98az have been fitted with K98k bolts, and so you may get an offer of a trade from such a Kar98az owner if you advertise in the right places, although, your's being a RC it will pressumably have a USSR applied electro-etched serial number on it, which will devalue it somewhat in that regard.

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I’ve toyed with the idea of trying to correct RC rifles to their original German state. However, I can’t bring myself to do it. The reality is that Russia defeated Germany, captured these rifles, and rebuilt them. To me, that’s part of the history. Yes, it’s the wrong bolt for what the rifle was originally when it belonged to the Nazis. However, it’s totally original and correct to how it left the Russian factory after they captured it. I’ll keep my Russian captured K98’s as Russian captured examples, and find separate original and uncaptured Nazi examples to satisfy that itch. I’m still learning and interested to know where all these parts came from originally though. I appreciate everyone‘s knowledge and help with that :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hurrikane18

I’ve toyed with the idea of trying to correct RC rifles to their original German state. However, I can’t bring myself to do it. The reality is that Russia defeated Germany, captured these rifles, and rebuilt them. To me, that’s part of the history. Yes, it’s the wrong bolt for what the rifle was originally when it belonged to the Nazis. However, it’s totally original and correct to how it left the Russian factory after they captured it. I’ll keep my Russian captured K98’s as Russian captured examples, and find separate original and uncaptured Nazi examples to satisfy that itch. I’m still learning and interested to know where all these parts came from originally though. I appreciate everyone‘s knowledge and help with that :)

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:thup::):clap:

Refreshing to hear that.
I have a particular interest in Norwegian capture K98k's which have several decades of use and changes post WW2 and its all part of their continuous history as well.

Being pedantic I know. Russia was only one of the countries that defeated Germany.

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Originally Posted by Daan Kemp

Being pedantic I know. Russia was only one of the countries that defeated Germany.

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Not according to many Russians..... ;)

Appreciate the approach! I have never changed a single detail on one of my milsurps.

Dang, now I want a Russian capture. Not sure how I am going to explain to my wife how a really ugly mismatched rifle is worth hundreds of dollars.....