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I'm going next weekend to Shoot my No.4 'T' at 400 yards - only ever used it at 100 yard before and it is nicely zeroed at that distance. Can anyone tell me how many elevation clicks on the scope I would need to at least get on paper at the extended range??
Count the clicks as you turn the drum up to "4" and let us know will you? ;)
Each click is 1 Minute of Angle, so four inches a click at 400 yards. (Assuming your scope is not a MkI)
Don't worry, as they said to King John, "it'll all come out in the Wash".
.
I am guessing you haven’t zeroed your scope dims to bdu marking. Assuming your ammo is similar to mk7 the following should be true. 100-400 should be 12 clicks. However if you are shooting something like PPU 174 fmj that is quite hot and a bt, when I was shooting this 100-500 yrd I typically set 50 yrds under so if that was the case you would only be adding 10 clicks.
0-100 = 3
100 -200 = 4
200 - 300 = 4
300 - 400 = 4
400 - 500 = 4
500 - 600 = 6
600 -700 = 7
700 -800 = 8
800 - 900 = 9
900 - 1000 = 11
I've only used factory PPU through my 4T (with Mk.3 scope) and I've never bothered shooting it at 100yrds, as I only shoot it at 300yrds and 600yrds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micheal Doyne
My scope setting for 300yrds with PPU is dead on number '2', and for 600 yrds its 2 clicks below '5'.
You might find this old thread interesting.... ;)
WWII Milsurp Sniper Rifles at 400 Meters (Range Video) ... click here
This is some fun video, which I thought many of our MILSURPS.COM members and other collectors here would enjoy. It shows MILSURPS.COM members ~Angel~, Scott and Badger :madsmile: , shooting various sniper rifles from their personal collections.
Engaging 12" Steel Plates and 4 Foot Targets at 400 Meters.
1945 British Enfield No.4(T) .303
1942 Russian 91/30 Mosin-Nagant 7.62x54r
1908 Swedish m/41b 6.5mm
Turn up the volume so you can hear the sound of those plates dropping !!!
http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...2inchsteel.jpg(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...2inchsteel.jpg
I've got a LOT more of these kind of range videos, including Scott zeroing his Russian 1941 PTRD 14.5mm antitank rifle, then engaging targets at 100, 400 and 600 meters. I've also got The Great Canadian Tennis Ball Challenge shoot-off match, using WW1 Enfield Wire Wrapped Grenade Rifles and Dischargers (click here). :lol:
As I find time, I'll get more of them posted in The Screening Room (click here) .
Enjoy!!
Regards,
Doug
ps: There's also another old thread with many of the same rifles at 500 meters. :thup:
Milsurp Sniper Rifles at 500 Meters (Range Video) ... click here
I'm using Greek HXP 303 Mk7 so it should work as planned - except IIRC I didn't zero it with HXP but the S&B stuff a few years back - haven't actually used it for about 5 years.
Take pictures and videos please!
Assuming your scope is not a MkI) What is the reason for this comment? Thanks
Mk.I scopes have the range increments in 50yd "clicks"
Mk.IA REL and Mk.II & III/3 scope have them in 1 Minute of Angle "clicks"
20+ years ago I had a run of index plates made up to fit Mk.I scopes that were also in 1 MOA clicks, so those would be the only exceptions I know of.
Interesting, I had a guy swearing blind his Mk1 had MOA clicks, I rather dismissed him, maybe Surpmil is responsible for my needing to pen an apology!
Peter fitted some up to scopes he overhauled around that time if people wanted them. Could be one of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micheal Doyne
This is the last pair, the gent who made them was a very skilled self-taught machinist, but he passed on years ago sadly.
Did a bit of experimentation at the time on how to rectify the problem of detent plunger holes worn ovoid and the backlash that develops as a result. Peter illustrates his solution in his book: detent plungers made to the No32 Mk3 pattern, but larger to fit the Mk.I/II scope plunger holes.
Marvelous workmanship. The late Graham Smith made me ten sets of Mk3 scope R&D assemblies, complete with index plates, R&D scales, bronze springs, lead screws, central threaded spindle & the knurled drum 'knobs' themselves. I still have about four or five of sets left & every time I look at his work it is a humbling experience........
There's never a surplus of humility about so I can second that benefit Roger, but I feel it's as much inspirational. If one has the desire or determination, given opportunity the rest will follow, unless one is just born with "ten thumbs". Look at what is made in places like the N.W. Frontier with the crudest of tools. Yes, some of it is junk, but some of it is remarkably good.
Not to take anything away from those who have really mastered machine tools, because that is a study of years, but IMHO it is not in the same league as what our forefathers achieved with only basic hand tools. I happened to show someone a book the other week called "Decorative Antique Ironwork" by Henry René D'Allemagne. The work illustrated in that book done by the great iron workers of Europe's past is "mind-blowing" in the current terminology. All done with not much more than hammers, punches, chisels and hand-made files!
I agree entirely, & enclose four photo's that just give a hint of Graham's capabilities........the upper Mk3 scope (without bracket) was a complete rebuild using his parts.
Brilliant work. Yes, routine to some people, but not us. And I believe we have someone here among us who is fully in this league.
In the meantime, here is a piece of work to be admired, and used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surpmil
Very Nice, for anyone looking for any information on any machine Tools , Lathes.co.uk is an excellent site, Tony managed to source a manual for my Henry Milnes Milling Machine.
Just reading thru an old manual and found a tip for judging distances and 400 yards was mentioned (as per the title of this thread)
Its a long way and iron-sights don't make it any shorter.
I found this mark-up online of a standard 303 zero target, with added check dims, and was wondering if there's a mathematical formula for calculating the ranges from the zero point or existing 300 and 600 yards points so as to be able to mark up one for a zero check at 900 yards?
Attachment 110145
Yes there is someone who shoots at Bisley will be able to help you get one. Maybe a little different having a full circle black not half.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam
Once you have found an elevation that works out to 900x for your rifle and ammunition at Bisley (34 1/2 MoA?) is to then go to the zero range after you have shot at 900x and zero on a 303 SR"b" zero target with your 900x yard elevation.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam
You could also use a 7.62mm zero card and put a white target patch over half the round bull to make it into a tin hat aiming point.
Once established you have the correct rise in inches for future zeroing sessions.
Also ask in the range office if they still have the old style SR"b" zero cards, these went up to 1000x yards but I suspect they might have all gone now.
Regarding shooting on the NRA TR round bull; the trick here is to use the normal elevation that you would on a tin hat target, (or whatever your elevation calculator says) and simply add half of the target aiming point in MoA to what your elevation should be and aim at the base of the black aiming point.
Doing this at 900x you just add 2 1/2 MoA to your normal elevation of 34 1/2 = 37 MoA.
Ironically I was shooting with the ATSC on Wednesday at 900x with my No.4 SR"b" and did just that. :)
Did the 400y shooting take place yet!?
I was shooting my T out to 550 yards yesterday, after re setting the zero at 100 yards set on 1 it as simple as turning the dial to 5.5 for 550y and I was getting consistent hits on my gong.
the shooting do not take place yet - getting a line slot at the range is nigh on impossible right now so we have to go to BLM land in CA to shoot at this range. it will be a wee while but i shall re zero at 100yds before then and work accordingly from there.
Well I shot 900 yrds at Bisley with the 4(T) this morning, but heat haze at the temps climbed into the high 20's was an issue for the guys shooting 7.62 HB target No.4's with PH5C aperture sights......whereas it wasn't so much an issue for me with the 4(T), and 37 clicks from stop got me just hitting the bank in front of the target, so needed to wind it up about 4-5 more clicks depending on the wind gusts which were from behind and slight across the right...Quote:
Originally Posted by Strangely Brown
Anyway the old girl did wonderfully and I bagged a respectable 40.2, which for an old battle rifle at 900 yrds wasn't too shabby I thought.......(and outscored all the 7.62 HB No.4 target rifles guys with their bondage jackets and straps as well, which was amusing :D)
Probably won't come first the next time though as we've 3 new younger members with just acquired modern black plastic sniper 7.62 thingies with 24x scopes etc., but it was the first time they've shot them and they hadn't quite got them zero'd perfectly or had the wrong rings or some other techy thing, that they were all had programmed into their Iphones from apps from the scope makers :surrender:
I was their this morning with my made up T and L42 at the rather More modest distance of 300yrds shooting the castle, accompanied by 5 of the black plastic (all right one was green) AI club. The old rifles acquitted them selves quite well, even with me behind the bolt we certainly weren’t last.
Our club 300 yrd shoot isn't till Remembrance Sunday (assuming we're not in another lockdown by then) so I'll probably just take the No.5 and K98k to that one....although with my eyes, there's high risk of shooting out the leccy target wires with the 5 and K98 at that range, so will probably have to wait until everyone else has had a go :lol: I normally only drag them out for 100 yrd shoots now but we lost our 100 yrd booking during lockdown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micheal Doyne
Next month I'd be dragging the 4(T) out again, as we've got a 600 yrd shoot.
Excuses excuses thingies and I-phones yes well you have to know your elevation to the mm at 900 because if you have not shot from all the ranges up to that point then your really trying to jag it even then your only really in the ball park as atmospherics can play havoc with your elevation. We shoot 3-4-5-6-7-8-9M & 1000 yds so you have to have it right and basically one load that groups and will still be supersonic at the furtherest range so you don't go transitional where it counts.
To try and spot a bullet strike at 900 yds on a mirage infested range will test the best scope or spotter I have used the 80 power on my rifle scope with a guy shooting a 223 at 900 and try as we all may could not find where the splash was for all we knew they may have been sailing over the top we tried hold low low & high still back to 300 you go and go from there.
What I hate is on your first sighter at 900 with a cold clean bore you get an X hmmm! now was that a bad shot that went good or a good shot that went bad most times your left with a dilema as a 5 usually follows so cut the X, 5 and try again or keep the X, 5 and hope you don't drop another.
From experience on our range its infested with a mirage that defies logic bit like a chopper blade doing all 3 movements whilst your trying to guess where its at, its either boiling or going left to right like a switch back at varying degrees whilst you look at it and the wind flags are normally going opposite to the mirage!!!:confused: