First post and P17 sporter question

Hello everyone! Question for the Enfield gurus out there.

I recently got a P17 Winchester sporter with a cosmetically worn-out stock, which I'd like to replace. The gun has a flat trigger guard but retained its military barrel. I'm in the process of checking out the action, headspace, bolt, etc. before firing it. So far so good, and if everything checks out, I'd like to put a new sporter stock on it.

I've emailed several stock makers, but none have answered my question about fitting a new stock, specifically the barrel channel. I'm thinking the military barrel contour is bigger than most sporter replacement barrels. If this is true, then I have two choices.

1. Go with a military barrel channel model, which for those I've contacted means using a
stepped trigger guard and (I assume) a deeper mag box, longer screws, etc.

2. Go with a sporter barrel channel model, which means I don't need to change the guard
or mag box, but would require carefully opening up the barrel channel.

Do these choices sound reasonable? Am I missing anything? If a sporter barrel is actually bigger than original military, then option 1 is the only real choice.

I'd do the detail letting-in and finishing myself, but re-contouring for a larger barrel would be a challenge. What do you think?

Pictures would help the experts to give expert advice.

Yes, I'll see if I can post some in the next couple days.

I don't think you'll have a problem with a replacement barrel unless it's a full bull or semi bull. Most replacement barrels are original contour. Not many pencil thin either.

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Originally Posted by rsu11

P17 Winchester sporter with a cosmetically worn-out stock,

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Just how bad is the stock? As long as there are no cracks, or major gouges ... it can be refinished. Before I would replace the barrel, and after I had confirmation that the rifle was safe to shoot, I would try it out. Pictures would certainly help in providing useful advice. From the information you've provided, we could be dealing with a BSA P17E or a bubba.

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Originally Posted by NORTHOF60

Before I would replace the barrel, I would try it out.

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Very true that, a crappy barrel sometimes shoots a dream and a new looking barrel can't do a barn door.

I'm going to be replacing the stock on my sporter as well. I way try richards microfit stocks. He has a lot of options

Thanks for the comments guys. Here are some pics. The stock is just an ugly style, is pretty beat up and has damage as noted. The mechanicals check out well and the bore cleaned up very nicely, so no replacement barrel at this point. In fact, the metal is in surprisingly good shape. Just shows normal age patina and nearly no pitting. The JAO rear sight is very similar to the one on my 03A3, so I'm fine with that.

The stock is not cracked and is secure to the receiver, so after confirming proper headspacing, I'll take it to the range. I don't think the missing wood near the receiver would be a safety issue, but I'm wrong, please say so! The chipped out wood area has been smoothed and there are no cracks running from it.

Otherwise, if the first shot brass looks good, I'll run a few more Garand loads through it for accuracy. Then back to the bench for inspection, cleaning and brass measurements.

I'm talking to a seller about a stepped plate stock with military barrel contour, but not sure what pieces would be needed to convert from a flat plate stock. Thinking a stepped trigger guard and mag box for sure, but is anything else needed? Hope the pics help.

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Originally Posted by jamie5070

I'm going to be replacing the stock on my sporter as well.

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Love to see it when it's done...?

Some pics attached - hope this helps. Entire rifle pic makes the stock look better than it actually is. However, no cracks and it does secure solidly to the receiver. Also included a shot of a chipped out area on the right rear of the receiver. The metal is in very good condition, including the bore. Everything works as it should, but I need to verify good headspace before firing it.

You can see it's a flat trigger guard version. I'm talking to a seller about a curved/stepped replacement stock with a military barrel channel. That would mean at least a stepped trigger guard and new mag box. Anyone else done a change like this? Is there anything else needed?

Hope this isn't a repeated post...tried to post last night but don't see it in the thread.

The biggest problem with the stock is the crap paint job - but I get your point. Fajen made a very nice sporter stock for the P14/P17 with the straightened trigger guard. It looks as if the stock was hogged out to accommodate a barrel mounted rear sight. Otherwise, looks like a nice sporter.

Interesting to use an M1 Carbine rear sight on the rear of the receiver.

Yep, very similar to the rear peep sight on my 03A3, so I considered it a plus. The ears were already gone , so not concerned with originality, just good iron sights that work well.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Love to see it when it's done...?

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It's on the back burner as I have to rebuild my trucks motor. If you check the web site, I'm leaning towards a dual grip, thumbhole stock. I just haven't decided between walnut or laminate. It was my first rifle and I've had it for close to 45 years. So I figured, Why not. :)

An update: I picked up a composite sporter stock as a testing platform and also checked headspace with a Forster field gauge for 30-06. Interesting results - the bolt nearly closes on the gauge. When I say nearly, I mean just a few degrees of rotation short of complete closing. I put witness marks on the receiver and bolt to show the 1/8" of difference - see the pics attached. Check was done with a stripped bolt using light finger pressure on the handle.

First pic shows completely closed bolt on empty chamber with safety engaged.
Second pic shows bolt just shy of closing on the gauge, about 1/8 inch between the marks. Safety will not engage.

I've read several other posts on this subject, one with the same issue but no pics. Most say the gun is safe to shoot, but hard on the brass. It seems like there is no more forward bolt travel around this point in the rotation, but there must be some slight cam action since the handle stopped just short of completely closing.

I'm inclined to shoot it once with a Garand load (lower pressure) and check out the brass measurements. If it checks out, I'll run some more Garand loads and look for consistency.

So technically it didn't close on a field gauge but it's within a gnat's eyelash. What say ye? Safe to shoot?

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Originally Posted by rsu11

So technically it didn't close on a field gauge

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I'd say THAT...it didn't close.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I'd say THAT...it didn't close.

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Agree Jim, not closed. Probably needs a wicker of a turn on a final reamer or buy an additional stripped bolt and try it. Usually US Ordnance had a pile of bolts to try to fit probably not an option today.

No reaming -- It should not close on the field guage and it didn't-- you should be good to go. Salt Flat

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Originally Posted by Salt Flat

No reaming

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Right, the field gauge is the final hope. It's the gauge that matters. It shouldn't close on it.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Right, the field gauge is the final hope. It's the gauge that matters. It shouldn't close on it.

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Sorry Jim my Dyslexia kicked in. Too early in the morning for me. LOL!! I thought it said Go-Gauge.

Thanks guys. Next job is sanding the barrel channel out to get a nice even gap, then it’s off to the range. I’ll put calipers on the brass and report back.

What stock did you end up getting?

I've got a couple of 1917's that I bought "sporterized" (rear sights ground off) and then I "resporterized" them by milled the rear receiver to be able to mount the correct Redfield 1 piece bases.

I only have 1 set up to shoot and it's got the flat floor plate configuration with some old sporter stock...looks decent, shoots ok with the crappy scope that on it...that's the next next upgrade.

The second one has the original trigger guard. I actually think I'm going to sell that barreled action. One of these rifles is Fine for me!

DW

I've had my sporterised 12/18 built Winchester M1917 since 1984. It came in a poorly finished NRA stock and I believe that it was part of a batch of post war built never issued rifles sold through the NRA as a sporter kit in the early 20's.

This rifle has been through many incarnations in our time together, multiple stocks and even a free floated, glassed and aluminum pillar bedded black walnut stock but never achieved its peak accuracy until it found its way into a full military stock!

It seems that these full length military barrels have to much whip for serious accuracy unless supported near the muzzle as originally designed. Once completed in what I assumed would be the ultimate combination for it, while using it at the range one could actually feel the barrel whip down and to the right as the bullet exited the muzzle. This was not only felt by me but also my brother several friends and even 2 range officers, all of us very experienced 40+ year shooters. A genuine fear I had was the possibility of receiver cracks from this exaggerated barrel motion.

By chance I happened to buy a Remington P14 that came in an Eddystone M1917 stock. Not one to leave such a situation alone I purchased a correct stock for the P14 and on a whim put the M1917 in the spare military stock. A small amount of barrel channel sanding and some thin shims under the centerline of the bore and this rifle finally achieved its true capabilities.

As the ears were crudely hacked off I had done much metal finishing work years before. Since it could never be a true restoration I decided to make it into a tribute to what might have been the greatest US Military Sniper Rifle that never was the US Model 1918. Obviously going with all original ridiculously expensive parts would have been foolish. I settled on a Weaver detachable side mount and a 3x Weaver 60 series scope with post reticle. The beauty of this setup is the ability to use several different scopes on it for different purposes. This side mount system is amazing in that it holds its zero perfectly with a scope change and never needs to be redialed in.

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Originally Posted by oldfoneguy

never achieved its peak accuracy until it found its way into a full military stock!

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Very interesting findings...

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Originally Posted by oldfoneguy

one could actually feel the barrel whip down and to the right as the bullet exited the muzzle.

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This of course with a free floated full length military barrel no front sight and no barrel support forward of the chamber.

Range day today with the P17 sporter. Ran 10 rounds through it with a pause to measure the brass from the first shot. My crude caliper measurements are shown in the attached pic. I was pleased to see no real differences compared to the same loads (PPU Garand 150gr) in my Smith Corona 03A3, which stops on the field gauge at 1/3 bolt handle travel. The remaining 9 cases measured the same as the first.

Target results at indoor 20 yards show low hits while I learned the sights and adjusted the rear sight to get the last two into the center. Just 9 hits as I kept my head away from the receiver on the first shot...you never know!

Last pic is of the composite stock. Nothing to get excited about but it does work. Picked up a NOS curved trigger guard and mag box still in cosmoline to convert it from flat to a belly gun. If all goes well, I'll probably order a walnut stock from Richards and have some fun finishing it. All in all, a good start with this 101 year old rifle.

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Originally Posted by oldfoneguy

This of course with a free floated full length military barrel no front sight and no barrel support forward of the chamber.

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Understood...very interesting.