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Sykes
Hello: I got this knife as part of a trade. I think it is an original. My Question is it real or a reproduction? Also if it is real from what era would it be from? Also any idea on its value would be appreciated. Thanks in advance and stay safe, KCQuote:
Originally Posted by King carp
Hi King Carp,
I am going to draw your attention to the attached article which might answer your fears:
British Commando Knife marks
The markings are unique and carefully marked and "normally" the Wilkinson Sword" stamps are central not to one side, but unless I have it in my hand I can't tell you its a fake.
It certainly looks the part and probably is. Have a read of the attachment and I am sure someone will be along who can identify anomolies for you.
Value............depending on the year, could be upwards of £1000 pounds with the sheath.
Good Luck my friend, a nice framed wall piece there either way!
The scabbard looks a bit "new" to be WW2 but I wouldn't like to say if it is or isn't a repro from the photos. Some people will say that it is genuine and others that it is a fake, difficult to say one way or the other. The markings probably are central but the angle that they were photographed make them look off centre?
Which was my concern. Wilkinson Sword bin stuff if its not right. Thats what they do best 110% excellance. I have my sword on the wall out of its scabbard and when I look at the fine detail on that as a comparison........my gut feeling is they would have slung the knife in that particular state.
However, war is war, and in those desperate times jobs like this producing these specialist knives in mass numbers, "may" have been deligated to other companies for a duration and the reason for the poor quality control IMHO, what thats worth!!
Shame I can't ask Roy Shadbolt ex 22 SAS who is sadly no longer with us I believe, great friend. He gave a lot of info on the knife and its makings.
The scabbard is actually more worn than some WWII examples I have had, so I would say very likely genuine. It has obviously hung on a belt for quite some time, whatever that may mean.
WSCo. seem to have given up the acid etched markings soon after the flat on the blade was eliminated; perhaps this shows why: difficulty getting the "stencil" to stay in place when bent over a steep double bevel.
By the time the corporate raiders and shell game players were done, there wasn't much left of WSCo. it seems; just a "brand" now: Wilkinson Sword - Wikipedia
Quote:
The production of swords came to an end when the company's sword factory at Acton closed in September 2005.[11] Wilkinson Sword then held an auction of the tools, equipment, sword drawings, and forging and milling machinery. Robert Pooley, who had commissioned the company to produce swords, bought many of these items and formed Pooley Sword to supply the Army in place of Wilkinson Sword.[12] Other sword manufacturers, and in particular WKC in Germany, also bought items, including the roll forge. Many of the tools and machines are still in use today and classic knives such as the Fairbairn-Sykes are produced by the company.
Thank you for the link on the fairbain Sykes knives. It is very informative. The Wilkinson logo is indeed offset to one side on my knife. I collect U.S. WW2 knives so I know a little more about them than our British allies blades.
Personally, I wouldn't worry too much. You have a very nice looking balde there, and it si often the provenance given by the seller that one has to trust or take with a pinch of salt.
Sadly they are a piece that you have to have in your hand to really see whether they are the real thing. It could have been produced on a bad day during the war and you have yourself a nice piece and the reason for the offset logo.
From the attachment I gave you can you resemble your knife in ALL of the other characteristics to make you happy its the real deal at this stage?
We wouldn't mind a look at those too...you could start a thread with those.Quote:
Originally Posted by King carp
Sometimes the handle and cross-piece have markings and perhaps your's does too?
Some of the F/S knife scabbards that I have seen have been in significantly worse condition than the example shown in post 1. It all depends on how much use the knife in question has actually had, I guess. The bluing to the chape to the scabbard, post 1, looks to be in almost perfect condition, so perhaps it's been re-blued, or perhaps the scabbard is not original to the knife?
Unfortunatly I have no history of this knife. There are no other markings besides the acid etched ones shown. Thanks for the input.
Ask the seller, if he doesn't know, ask who he got it from? Provenance isn't everything, but it's a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by King carp
And BTW, notice how polished those leather 'nubs' are where the flaps are sewn on? That is from rubbing against clothing for a long period. The original idea of the sew-on flaps was that the scabbard would be prevented from catching on the blade or guard as the knife was withdrawn, rising up with it and preventing a "clean" withdrawal. In general the scabbard and hangers weren't very well thought out. The flimsy elastic came off, as yours has done and then there was nothing but gravity to keep the knife in the scabbard. A proper rigid throat on the scabbard with a friction retainer would have been a far better idea, as would a pocket down the back of the scabbard for a pistol cleaning rod to stiffen the whole thing and prevent the problem the leather flaps were intended to address. But the rush was on in 1940...
I don't think I'd want to be jumping and rolling around with one of those on my belt held in by nothing but a bit of garter elastic!
I think we need some more pics of the scabbard before we can determine if it's real or repro. Need to see the belt slide, see if it's exaggerated by being worn on a belt at all...
Here are some pics of the scabbard.
A great aunt of mine lived in Shanghai before the war. I remember I was very impressed as a boy that she knew Capt. Fairbairn! :D She and her husband went through the internment camps and got back to Canada, but her husband went back postwar and came to a mysterious end in 1949 as the Reds took over.
The book. Funnily enough the knife gets very little coverage; the Smatchet gets more!
Yes, pic one shows belt wear. I expect the elastic band was just removed.
The stitching on the re-enforcement on the upper back has rotted and let loose. It happened to mine.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...62c46b62-1.jpg
King Carp,
I would venture it is absolutely authentic, as the Chinese can't stitch like that to save their lives :lol:if they wanted to make a copy, enjoy it mate, and as I said earlier if the seller has ANY provenance fantastic. Just spoke to a friend in an auction house, he said he had a FBS knife and medals go with a WW2 story for over £3500 grand last year, so stick with it. Wouldn't it be nice if the seller could give you the name of the user who it was issued to.
This knife came in a lot with U.S. items so no story to go with it. It is still nice to know it is an original example. From the article recommended there was a F.S. knife that was issued to the U.S.M.C.That must be a rare version. I will keep an eye out for one of those.
See your PM for some info towards one of those...Quote:
Originally Posted by King carp
Beautiful original 2nd pattern knife - scabbard is original and is a fine example -Quote:
Originally Posted by King carp
1942/3 - $600-$800 (perhaps more if you get lucky.)
The etches were often not perfectly centered - I like everything about this one.