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See Ovidio,
I told you those Canadians were all the same, here is a young Dutch girl being told about how wonderful Canada is by lads from the South Alberta Tank Regiment in Bergen Op Zoom Netherlands on the 29th October 1944.
Just look at their drooling faces, not one looking out for Germans, all fixed on one thing!!:lol:
Would you blame them, Gil?
That is also very Italian, if I'm allowed to comment:super:
If you read Barry Broadfoot you'll see that quite a few of those girls didn't wait to be asked, they stated quite frankly that they wouldn't mind living in Canada...and I suspect the fellows that took them up on it generally had few regrets.
Might well be!
My Great Uncle brought back his little Dutch girl...to Alberta...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
I can tell you that not all interactions in a liberated country were on the level. Sorry to burst your romantic bubbles! These people were desperate and had nothing to offer. The reality of Holland was that many were taken advantage of and in fact it was no better than their German oppressor. Do your research before you romanticize war.
I'm not entirely sure quite what you are getting at.
The people of Holland were staving at the end of WW2 and that is why RAF aircrews risked their lives to drop food for the civilian population while the country was still occupied by the enemy.
During WW2 a relative of my mother visited Holland, in September 1944, by parachute, at a place called Arnhem. When the order came to pull-out he had to swim the Rhine while being shot at which he avoided by swimming underwater some of the way. I don't think his visit to Holland, during WW2, could have been a particularly pleasant visit because he didn't want to talk about what had happened at Arnhem and he wouldn't go anywhere near an aeroplane for a long time after the war, until he had to for his work, despite being a founder member of the Parachute Regiment.
The picture in post 1 is just 5 young men chatting to a young lady, just being pleasant to her, nothing more, nothing less.
I have no useful comment on all that, but did you notice how they wrapped spare track around their turret? Battlefield ingenuity. :super:
Largely battlefield despiration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticus Thraxx
An attempt at up armouring Shermans.
There have always been good and bad soldiers. They were soldiers, not boy scouts or candidates for sainthood! Sure, some took advantage of the misery of the people and extorted sex or valuables for food and/or cigarettes, but the vast majority were earnest, helpful, compassionate men who freely shared rations and medical supplies to those in need. A lot of women willingly engaged in sex out of gratitude. Why do you think the Dutch people hold Canada and Canadians in such high regard? Why does parliament hill get flooded with tulips every year? Where did the Dutch royal family spend their exile?
"Many were taken advantage of" Can you expand on that?Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryEAL
Holland offers interesting contradictions: great expressed gratitude for liberation alongside a high degree of active collaboration.
"...and in fact it was no better than their German oppressor."
That sounds like a rather extreme statement, considering that Germany basically put the Dutch on starvation rations from 1944. Not quite as bad as what Greece and some other occupied countries endured of course.
Perhaps he was referring to "German-Canadians" whom the rest of us have never heard of before? A bit like "French-Canadians" only different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surpmil
Crikey guys, this thread was supposed to be a bit of fun starting with the Sherman image and the 1000 yard stare from the guys talking to the Dutch girl..................didn't realise it would open Pandora's box................whoever she is!!! ;)
Ja, achtung, Deutsch-kanadisch, Soldaten.
.. ..-. / .. - / .-- .- ... -. .----. - / ..-. --- .-. / - .... . / -.-. .- -. .- -.. .. .- -. ... --..-- / - .... . / -.. ..- - -.-. .... / .-- --- ..- .-.. -.. / -. --- - / .... .- ...- . / -... . . -. / .-.. .. -... . .-. .- - . -.. / ... --- / ... ..- -.-. -.-. . ... ... ..-. ..- .-.. .-.. -.-- .-.-.-
Who knows morse code?
My father served with 418 RCAF as a navigator. The squadron moved to Volkel near Eindhoven early in 1945. He remembered how little the Dutch people had however their generosity and friendship was boundless. Much later in the early 1970s as a young Rockape I received a posting to Germany and ended up on a Bofor squadron based at RAF Laarbruch (now Niederrhein Airport). The base was located on the Dutch border and I ended up spending most of my spare time in Holland. Inevitably I met a young Dutch girl. She lived in a village not far from Overloon. The older folk rarely spoke of the war. I was introduced to the family who made me feel very welcome, a home from home. One day her mother took her aside and warned her 'English soldiers are only after one thing.'
The village was liberated by the Hereford Regiment in 1944.
Wonder how the mother knew that?
One of the biggest slaps in the face by the brits was the exclusion of so much as one Canadian at the opening of the port of Rotterdam. Considering the bulk of the heavy lifting in the taking of the Scheldt estuary and the losses suffered were predominately Canadian, Monty didn't see fit to have a single Canadian officer or OR at the official opening. Personally, I don't think he was half the general the Currie or Simmons was.
I was trying to respond in a jest way, bearing in mind that you said that "this thread was supposed to be a bit of fun".Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
This is it in plain speech:
IF IT WASN'T FOR THE CANADIANS, THE DUTCH WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN LIBERATED SO SUCCESSFULLY
I HAVE NOT SAID THAT THIS ISN'T THE CASE. I WAS RESPONDING TO POST 7.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
I could have said "Deutsch-Englische Soldaten" but it wouldn't have been very relevant, to this thread, because this thread is about Canadians and it was also intended to be a "play on words", as in "French=Canadians/German-Canadians". I have never heard of "French-English", discounting the residents of the Channel Islands, of-Course.
My immediate response to post 7 was much more "out-spoken" than the response that is seen now. This was toned downed after quick reflection and I believe that only the author of post 7 noticed my immediate response to what he had written.
Gil, I do not believe that my German is so bad that you do not understand a word of what I am talking about, considering that you are half German and I studied the language for over 6 years, albeit quite a few years ago.
Ich neige sowieso dazu, alles zweimal zu sagen, Jim, also entschuldige ich mich dafür.
Ja, wenn ich halbdeutsch bin, kann ich meinen Glauben sagen, und einer ist, dass die Briten und Kanadier das Leben der Niederländer während des Zweiten Weltkriegs nach so vielen Jahren in deutscher Hand erträglich gemacht haben.
Bleib sicher und glaube immer an die Geschichte.
Es kann nicht neu geschrieben werden.
Na Junge, du schreibst aber perfekt deutsch.
Schön zu sehen, dass ich bei weitem nicht alleine bin im Beherrschen dieser schönen, schwierigen Sprache.
Macht's gut meine Freunde!
Und benimmt euch...gut:p
Ja Danke :lol:
The Dutch people owe a debt of gratitude to all who fought for their freedom. As a child I remember visiting the Commonwealth war graves to lay flowers. All the school children took part on Liberation day. Even now I will visit the War graves (American, British Canadians) and remember the soldiers left behind that became part of Holland.
Mrs Rockape
I sat on the fence when I heard the comments earlier.
All I can say is, as someone who is heavily involved with the Hartenstein Museum and Oosterbeek Cemetery for obvious Parachute Regiment reasons, with someone with family buried there, I have always been moved emotionally by the sight of the youngest children who each year stand so reverently beside their nominated Paratroopers grave and lay their flowers.
They have to research the fallen soldier and know everything about that person, in so doing, hoping that dreadful war never returns to their shores.
The Dutch people are very English in many of their views, so in short if you don't like us Brits you won't like the Dutch.
Answer: Go out and buy some Edam cheese and a bunch of tulips for your loved one.........and move on!:thup:
I don't understand the last part of your post.
Maria aka Mrs rockape
I haven't actually made any derogatory comments about Canadians and/or Canadian soldiers and nor would I. Post 12 was a response to post 11 as well as being a response to post 7. Post 14 was a response to your post 13, Gil, when you said that it was supposed to be a bit of fun (post 13), while also responding to the previous posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying10uk
I do try to be fairly careful what I post but if people decide to only read part of what I have written/said and then misinterpret it that is not my problem.
Gil, you did confirm yourself, to me, several years ago, that George B., a relative of my mother, did fight in the battle of Arnhem, which there never was any doubt about anyway. Therefore, in my opinion, my family made it's own small contribution to the liberation of Holland and the Dutch people during WW2.
Flying10uk,
Roger that fully appreciate your families committment to Market Garden, and yes everybody interprets emails and the posted words differently. How sensitive we have all become. Nothing like looking into someone's eyes when statements are made I suppose.
Maria,
Sarcasm ....................and a general comment to those who made earlier statements and perhaps don't understand us Brits and Dutch people.;)
Around here there's a saying, "You can always tell a Dutchman, but you can't tell him much." In fairness, the term "Dutchman" became more or less synonymous with German through Pennsylvania etc.
On the other hand, one of the true old breed around here used to enjoy telling us, "If it's not Dutch, it's not much!" as often as possible.
As for any similarity to the English, I suspect there is a considerable resemblance in many in the North East of England, but not much to someone from Cornwall or Somerset, or most other counties - fair?
Bygones are bygones, we the aforesaid are all on the same side now, though some unfortunately have yet to grasp that.
Bit like the States in many respects, the UK. Every State and within its regions are very different, and you often think you are on a different planet sometimes, especially down deep south, in the States and the UK. Cornwall where I have lots of relations are very tribal and fight every inch for fishing rights and all matters the sea, and Northumbria/Wales/Scotland, so diverse, and the reason why I spend much of time these days travelling within the UK becuase, simply put, its so beautiful especially up in the mountains of Wales or Scotland.
Using Pennysylvania as an example, go out of Philly into the countryside and especially into Amish country, and its so staggeringly beautiful, and the ice cream is to die for made at local farms.
We know nothing until you visit the farms of these very able and friendly people, you do feel you are somewhere else. Settlers who made it home a few hundred years ago, and brought so much to the diversity of the U.S.A ;)
So really the U.K was and is one of the oldest and most harmonious multi-ethnic states. It's always been my opinion that the push to break it up originates as much in Europe as anywhere else, where now of course smaller states are much more digestible than what amounts to an older and competitive model. Napoleon had exactly this in mind and I'm sure the idea is alive and well in some quarters. Ably assisted by dolts and traitors in the UK of course, who imagine we have moved onto some higher plane of human existence where realpolitik is no longer the determinant.:slap:
Exactly what the Liberal government here in Canada is attempting to do. White old stock Canadians are being marginalized, belittled, and demonized. Patriotism is derided as passe and a joke amongst the "intelligentsia". Illegal immigrants, mostly muslim, are being imported without being properly vetted, or educated as to Canadian values, culture, traditions, or proper civil deportment. All this in spite of the mountain of evidence showing the problems in attempting to integrate hard-core muslims into a civilized western democracy.
Marcus Tullius Cicero to the Senate, about 42 B.C., as recorded by Gaius Sallustius Crispus.Quote:
A nation can survive its fools and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly against the city.
But the traitor moves among those within the gates freely, his sly whispers rustling through all alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself.
For the traitor appears no traitor; he speaks in the accents familiar to his victim, and he wears their face and their garments and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men.
He rots the soul of a nation; he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city; he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared. The traitor is the plague.
It is said that power moves westward around the globe. In five years there will be more Christians in China than the USA. Imperial authority in China was traditionally called "the Mandate of Heaven" and when a regime was seen to have failed morally, it was said that the Mandate had passed to others. It is hard not to see the parallels with the West, which rose on Christian morality and falls without it. The signs are everywhere for those willing to face them.
Quote:
I suspect that even the most enthusiastic accounts err on the downside, and that Christianity will have become a Sino-centric religion two generations from now. China may be for the 21st century what Europe was during the 8th-11th centuries, and America has been during the past 200 years: the natural ground for mass evangelization. If this occurs, the world will change beyond our capacity to recognize it...