Actually got somethign from the Auciton from Hell today, Munitions.

Got these two today. Purchased online as I wasn't going to sit there and wait for them. Not exactly sure what I got.

The first box is obviously a US training rifle grenade. The other two items I assume are the same although I only looked at one. 57mm US anti-tank casings. The "shell" is apparently made out of cardboard or paper, didn't examine it closely.

The second box has quite the variety. The banded one in the center is a WWII German 20mm round. Don't know what any of the rest of it is but looks to be a 20mm variety pack.

I'll pick them up Monday and will get some nice photos for ID purposes. I'll probably need some help with that mess.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../TsWDrzi-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../QCG3EJR-1.jpg

A bit of everything there in the 20mm pack for sure, if you lay them out we'll be better able to name them for you. Looks like a Boys 55 anti tank rifle cartridge in the bottom back...what else is hiding?

I just shifting through the box a bit and found the German shell and based my bid interest off that. A couple I picked up didn't have base markings so they were not helpful. I've never even ran into a 57mm before. There were a couple of other boxes also that I tried for but didn't get. It was all sort of rushed. We had someplace to be and when we got there I had no service and was stuck in traffic. Did a quick turnaround and got back to service just as the first lot came up. Never used this service before and didn't know I won that one for half an hour after. Second lot I knew I won at least. Third lot just went way to high. First lot I bid on was actually the second I was interested in but that one went way to high and was just common rifle ammo. Had an 88 commission rifle clip in it but the box wasn't worth over $120 for that clip. It was a nice box but I wanted the bigger stuff. I think the top photo has them out of proportion because I was thrown off when I looked in the box. The two cases were the same size, the cardboard bullet was removed.

I got an unfired but very rusty 4pd shell today also at an antique shop to fit in a casing I got last week. I plan to clean that one up and paint it. So it was a good munition day. I don't think I have most of what is in the box of small stuff.

I won a lot in the same auction. It was a cool auction!

This auction was a nightmare before the pandemic, now we have people from St Louis bidding in it. I did notice someone from Nebraska also.

But seriously, if you see something at this auction that you're interested in, I can stop by and check it out for you. Just better not be something I'm bidding on. It's my hometown. I hate buying stuff sight unseen and their descriptions suck.

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

the box of small stuff.

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I see a cartridge rim in there towards the right half and above the blue practice 20mm. Wonder if it's a German 13mm? Can't wait for you to lay them out for a look.

I'm thinking they had a guys collection and they broke it up or he broke it up. They sell on consignment at this auction. They had a big box of individual cartridges in envelopes that I didn't even take notice of until I was watching the lots actually sell. Had I noticed that one, I might have bid on it. If that's the case, it's likely this box has only one of each type in it. I'm curious as to the red plastic one. Either some sort of blank or shotgun round by the looks of it, probably 20mm also.

I will pick them up tomorrow morning but probably won't have time to photograph them till I get home in the afternoon. I'm anxious to see what they are also. Your initial guesses are quite intriguing.

Oh I’ve been bidding with them for a good long while now.
Most of what I’m buying these days is for resell so I’m not real stiff competition if you want something for a personal collection.

Unless it’s a really nice sporterized 1903...then I will happily overpay haha.

Thanks for the preview offer! I’ll keep that in mind.

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

I'm curious as to the red plastic one.

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In Norway, that was the issue blank type for everything...in Australia they were black plastic and is Germany they were green or white... It's a blank cartridge. Hard to be sure from the angle but 20mm or .50 cal?

It is short compared to most in the box but I'd guess it's 20mm. I'm going to get them in the morning and probably take a quick photo of them lined up and one of the bases. Nothing fancy as I have to get to work but it'll give you guys some time to possibly narrow down the unknowns. Probably around 9 in the morning.

Looking forward to looking...

I need to look at things closer. It was not two 57mm cases, it was one and a 75mm WWI case. The "shell" is made of wood but has something wrapped around it. I may remove that and repaint it. I didn't include that in the photos, it's in the earlier ones.

I would say you have a very good eye. It does appear to be one complete unfired Boys anti-tank round and a fired 13mm German anti-tank round. One is easy with the headstamp, a Madsen 23mm

I can't answer any questions until later as I will be at work.

Have at the rest:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../S82D3U8-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../T0mXNUz-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../IxxO3P0-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../IfPSE9Y-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../VKMr6GH-1.jpg

Nice pile, good catch. We'll get them all identified eventually. Yes, there's a couple really good ones and several that I wouldn't mind. Could never get them across the border now though. Maybe the empties...

The Boys is still live. So is the red plastic one. All the rest are inert.

that cartridge with the head stamp F A 44 night be a 15mm on a 20 mm case being necked down. They were working
on some for aircraft during the war

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Originally Posted by RCS

that cartridge with the head stamp F A 44 night be a 15mm on a 20 mm case being necked down. They were working
on some for aircraft during the war

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What country?

F A 44 is the US Military Frankfort Arsenal headstamp and 44 is 1944

Thanks. I’m kind of new to munitions. This lot tripled my small stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RCS

that cartridge with the head stamp F A 44 night be a 15mm on a 20 mm case being necked down.

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I saw that, thought it was German until the headstamp. One of the ultra high velocity attempts.

Maybe this can make things easier. They are not in the same order as the photos but the headstamps and other markings are listed. If I don't have anything in the block, I don't know what goes there. The case height may not be perfect, I'm using an old wooden ruler. I'm going to start looking them up by markings. I suspect the dummy rounds are mostly US and Browningautorifle believes the red one is Norwegian.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...mgWujpng-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

browningautorifle believes the red one is Norwegian

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Here's an article that describes some of the red plastic blanks to back a bit of that up... Bakelittfabrikken - General Ammunition Discussion - International Ammunition Association Web Forum

I found a bunch of red plastic blanks yesterday online but none were this large. I had thought I found an exact match off a photo but turned out to be 9mm. I didn't take note of where it was made. 30 carbine rounds that were similar were labeled as Dutch.

Some information I've found this morning states that Norway was where this type of round originated and the patent was held by the company in your link but since then they have been produced elsewhere.

I wiped that one down last night and it cleaned up pretty nice. Had sticker residue on it.

here are some photos of the 20x138mm case, used by Poland and Finland (also Germany


The case is 138mm long

hope this help in your identificationAttachment 111363Attachment 111364

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Originally Posted by RCS

the 20x138mm case, used by Germany

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Looks like they fit the gun used in one scene in Saving Private Ryan, the men attacking the tank in the fight for the bridge. A gun was handwheeled up and decimated a half dozen guys...