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Recently picked up this nice 2nd pattern, from the markings it appears to be Indian Ishapore.
Nice blade etch and not stamp...
Would you all agree this is a legit FS? 1941-1943 era? There is not a lot of info to be found on these indian knives. I did see a thread on here about one on here that was fake, the FS logo was to precise and look stamped.
Interested to here peoples thoughts...
Thank you
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Have a chat to Roy Shadbolt an expert on this type of weapon he will say either way he confirmed my 3rd pattern as late WWII, he is a very nice chap and answers pretty promptly.
http://wilkinsonfscollection.com/
Cheers Cinders, will drop him a message!
Here is the reply i had from Roy...
Thanks for contacting me. I’m actually all too familiar with this knife Chris and afraid it’s bad news, as this is 100% FAKE. I remember when this chap started making these, my dear friend Robert Wilkinson-Latham had to send him a cease and desist letter for using Wilkinson etchings. Long story but that’s the gist.
Not the news i was hoping for but that just shows my lack of knowledge and inexperience.
On a side note i just wanted to say what a great guy Roy was, very knowledgeable and very keen to help.
Cheers Roy 🍻
It's not intended as a rude question but did you pay much for the knife?
It may make you feel better to look at the prices of some of the decent quality "official-reproduction" F-S knives as they are not cheap.
I recently decided that I needed a WW2 German Fallschirmjäger helmet in my collection but, unfortunately, I don't have £5,000 to spend on buying an original. My solution was to buy a reproduction for £50 which is probably made in China or India but is of excellent quality and I am very pleased with it for the money.
Hello Flying10uk, not rude at all! Its no secret, i paid £95. So not a massive sum in the world of FS knives and Roy agreed that i got off lightly.
Like you say its still looks nice and does have character to it and will still sit in my collection and not look too out of place. Or at least until i can find one at the right price that is genuine.
For £95 I think that you got a good deal, however one wants to label the knife.
Some collectors mistakingly think that the (I) above the arrow denotes "India" or "made in India" which it doesn't. It is an acceptance marking for the Indian government which could be found on equipment made outside of India but accepted into Indian service as well as equipment made in India.
Thanks for the info, i was informed by the place of purchase that it was Indian and was found and purchased in India.
I was already aware that just like the broad arrow it is a stamp of acceptance rather than manufacturer.
After a chat with the seller i was able to return it for a full refund, i decided that no matter how nice looking it was the seed of doubt was in my mind.
I did not want to say it was a fake as the ground edge on the blad looked suss the poor form of the blade (Ridges) on the blade under the cross piece and lastly the toe fit of the scabbard into the metal a rather large gap I checked my scabbard and its a very tight fit. Glad you got a refund keep looking for one though I think if you get a real F/S for 95 quid you'll be doing very well indeed they are not cheap buys at anytime.
I presented a former Royal Marine who recieved the Legion de Honour for being the first man on Juno Beach with the Canadians on D-DAY with a Fairbairn copy from India inside a glazed plaque with Hitlers warning if Commandos were captured.
I have to say the quality was outstanding and would make an expert think twice, I was impressed, so it would appear they are getting better at their craft their in India copying the old favourite. The stamps in the metal were very good too.
Why not if there is a market for them!!;)
Somewhere I did see a copy of a letter suggesting that a quantity of bare F/S blades were going to be or intending to be shipped out to India during WW2, if memory serves me correctly by Wilkinson.
One can imagine an enterprising Indian finding a create of rusty old knife blades in a warehouse, somewhere in India, and thinking, "If I can get some nice shiny brass handles turned up in the local workshop, I can sell them back to collectors from where the blades came.".
...............and they probably did, and the low sale price reflected it. Good luck to them.:thup:
I already have a 2nd pattern modern production from an original manufacturer which im more than happy with. Quality is top notch, can't fault it.
But for my collection i would like a good honest, ww2 original example.
It's going to be a lot more than £95, I'm afraid, for a 2nd pattern.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout Sniper
Im under no illusion on prices, thats just how much it was. It was listed as the real deal and i brought it, but i made a mistake.
I collect Militaria, im not afraid to pay real money for the good stuff.
The India Fairbairn Knives have an "I" on the guard somewhat similar to this one.
"C" for Canada, and D and D either side of the board arrow for Australia.
The knives were made in the UK, not Ishapore.
The were destined to be sent to India, many were not sent and remained in the UK.
I have had several - mine are both styles of blade machine ground and hand drawn. Mine are all 3rd patterns (there are 2nd pattern India marked knives), mine have the same 1-4 wartime gang mold numbers on the top of the handles that all 3rd pattern WW2 knives have.
Many India marked knives (167,000) went to the USA after the war as reparation payment (wartime support) and are marked with ENGLAND stamps on the guard and sheath.
This means they had remained in UK stores immediately after the war.
The reparation knives (ENGLAND stamps) went to the USA in the late 40's-50's.
The knife in question is a well known copy style, has a fake fat-style 2nd pattern handle, a fairly obvious copy-cat fake etching which is stamped not etched - glad you only lost a few dollars.
There are several collector sites dedicated to Wilkinson Sword knives and a few good FB pages, but best of all there are a half dozen really useful books on collecting Fairbairn Sykes.