Bunches and bunches....
Attachment 111736
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Bunches and bunches....
Attachment 111736
You think I can find a nice one to take home?
I don't know man... there might not be a big enough selectionQuote:
Originally Posted by fjruple
Nice pull usabaker. Usually don't see that many abandoned rifles unless they're French. :surrender:
That's the best thing about buy French surplus rifles, never used and only dropped once.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticus Thraxx
Now this is a lot of K98k's....... :)
Part of the 300,000 or so K98k's being sorted in Norway after the German surrender in 1945.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...erholdin-1.jpg
My Norwegian surrender K98k might in that pile somewhere :)
WOWzers! even more....Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam
Its a rare one as well, as it's a double Naval issue, being originally a German Kriegsmarine issue, that after surrender, was one of the small number issued to the Norwegian Navy, and thus escaped the 1950's conversion to 30-06.Quote:
Originally Posted by usabaker
Its not quite all matching though being bolt and buttplate miss-matched. Does still have an original German sling though.
I didn't know these existed or that the Norwegianicon Navy was issued German MausersQuote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam
Not just the Norwegian Navy, the Army, Air Force, Coastal Artillery and Norwegian Police were all issued German arms from the surrendered German arms stock after the war (Norwegian Police were issued the shorter G33/40 mountain carbines from the stock surrender by German Mountain Troop units stationed in Norway at the surrender)Quote:
Originally Posted by usabaker
Norway needed to re-arm its own forces after the war, and their view was make use of the mountain of German arms and ammo left by the Germans so they started collecting it up, collating it all, and selecting the best of everything for their own needs.
By the early 1950's stocks of 7.92x57 ammo was running down, and the USA were offering plenty of 30-06 ammo to NATO countries, so in 1952-3 Remington supplied new K98k barrels in 30-06 calibre and Norway set about rebarreling and modifying the Army, Coastal Artillery and Air Force K98k's into K98kF1. The Navy and Police G33/40's were left as 7.92x57.
However, within just a couple of years NATO went over to 7.62x51, so all the converted K98kF1's were relegated to part time reserve forces and reserve stock. They did convert a few to 7.62 NATO as a trial, but decided that buying new rifles to equip the forces was the way forward. These K98k's were still in reserve forces use up until the early 90's, when they were all finally sold off as surplus and a batch made their way to the USA and to other countires, before a do-gooding Norwegian politician cried foul, and stopped the sell off, and managed to enact an order whereby the vast majority of them were taken out into the North Sea by the Navy and dumped into the sea.....and prevent any still sold and still in Norway begin exported from Norway.....:banghead:
How many of the 150,000 odd rifles escaped is unknown......and I believe a Norwegian dealer was sitting on about 20,000 he bought but can't export. I believe they have been largely reduced to parts to be able to be exported, as a large number of K98k stock sets have turned up in the USA that originated from Norway. No doubt the actions have ended up being scrapped, whether the good barrels have been saved for spares I don't know? The Norwegian air force/army cadets still to this day use the small number of K98k that were retained in Norwegian service.
As a result of all that, the unconverted Navy K98k's and Police G33/40 mountain carbines are the rarest of those that did manage to get exported from Norway.
I love Mausers... I would jump into that pile like Uncle Scrooge does in coins...Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam
Each layer is ten and the stacks appear to be eighteen or twenty. Twenty would make sense to be two hundred rifles per pile for easy counting...times how many stacks. I could hand bomb a stack into my truck if given a few minutes.
I'd help youQuote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Take two then, roll out on the helper springs. I just wonder what the sundry smaller piles of "Stuff" are in the edges of the pics.Quote:
Originally Posted by usabaker
Can't see clearly, goes too blurry when zooming in.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
I can certainly see piles of MG34 or MG42 at the back at the end of the row behind the guy standing in the middle. You can see the distinctive crescent shape butt's.
I've only seen a couple of ex "Norge" K98's in the original 7.92mm, rare rifles in the UK (as said, the vast majority are .30-06), any chance of sharing a few pics with the rest of the anoraks!Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam
---------- Post added at 05:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 PM ----------
With you there, a good shooting condition WW1 era G98 has to be one of the nicest to shoot and most accurate of all the Milsurp bolt guns, the K98 is rather sharp in its recoil in comparison...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovidio
---------- Post added at 05:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:55 PM ----------
Perhaps a nice pile of Kongberg 1911's Jim .... Now that's a stash I would head for in this version of Supermarket sweep!Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
I'll sort a couple out tomorrow, and post, as only have a few close up details of it after taken apart, so as to check with the 'expert collectors' about numbers and stuff after I first got it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
The G33/40 mountain carbine is even more vicious that the K98k! The ex-Noggie 30-06 K98kF1 I had previously was more vicious than a G33/40 carbine!!
A couple of weeks ago at Bisley, the club shooting next to my club at 300 yrds, were shooting a fine selection of Milsurps, which made a pleasant change from all the plastic fantastics usually seen there, and allowed some nice mutual rifle admiration between club members :D
It was the first time in years I'd come across someone else with a K98k, in fact there were 2 of them, plus a couple of very nice G98's, a couple of K31's, a handful of SMLE & No.4's including a nice 4T and a few Mosins among the next door neighbours lot. My club only had a P14, 2 x No.4's, 2 x No.5's and my K98k.
I’m in too!Quote:
Originally Posted by usabaker
Before the Beeb's coding took over the page there yesterday, I was trying to say that we should not be too quick to judge the French military of 1940. In fact many, probably most units fought hard and well - the German losses speak to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by usabaker
The performance of the BEF, particularly the high command, was nothing to crow about, and but for the French holding much of the Dunkirk perimeter, how many would have escaped?
And but for Churchill and the Channel the end would have been the same as that of France.
I’m reading “To Lose a Battle”, from Alistair Crowe.
Very interesting, and really explains the genesis of that gigantic defeat.
I imagined a different reality.
It was the French Prime Minister that lost France, not the French Army.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surpmil
Reynaud phoned Churchill in the middle of May blabbering that France is lost.....so he'd given up by then, and had he allowed Gamelin's attack from the north to meet up with an attack from the south to cut of the German bulge, things "may" have been different.....instead he sacked Gamelin and replaced him with Weygand who's first priority was to get a good nights sleep and then have a jolly around Paris for a few days.........2 days the French and Allies couldn't afford to loose.
Even the Germans couldn't believe their luck in the Battle of France, many wrote afterwards that it could have been so different given the French and allied superiority in artillery and parity in all but aircraft numbers, and it was the effectiveness of the Luftwaffe/Army Blitzkrieg tactic that gave them that extra edge in a short time.
Mind you, my Uncle went to France with the BEF in 1939, and was one of the lucky ones to be evacuated at Dunkirk in 1940, and he never had much of a good word to say about the French army - he thought they were scruffy, smelly and ill disciplined...... :lol: but he was a pre-war regular, and ended up doing 22 years and finishing up as a WO2 by time he retired in 1959.
I guess they just were not ready for modern warfare. Mentally, from the point of view of their military doctrine, morally, and materially. They had some great pieces of equipment, but too little. They had good tanks, but used them piecemeal, they had slow reactions and were at that point a very divided nation. It was the whole picture that was blurred beyond repair.
I’m at the night from May 15 to 16 in the book, and the damage was already irreparable.
To be fair and to balance things up, (in fighting aside) the resistance fought bravely under the Nazi jackboot for 4 years, at a great cost in lives, assisting allied aircrew escape and providing intelligence/ attacking key targets etc and the growing number of Free French forces in Britain certainly made a good account of themselves when let lose on the Germans.
The issue in 1940 France, was one of poor leadership and slow reactions,Blitzkrieg took everyone by surprise...
To many in France, the thought of another war, only twenty years after 'the war to end all wars', with its massive French death toll, probably also coloured and slowed their response to a degree.
The Blitzkrieg had been developed starting in Spain and then unleashed in Poland.
After 8 months, the Allied should have known better what was coming their way. At least not claim they were surprised, because they had extremely accurate reports from own liaison officers and observers who saw what happened in Poland. They knew well, or could have if they had wanted to aknowledge the truth.
I think that this “misreading” of reality was the biggest sin of all after Munich.
It feels like both the French and the Brits didn’t want to face reality and thought that Germany would never beat the victors of WWI just because they were the victors.
But nothing more than that.
Plus the French were extremely divided due to political conflictuality and a very strong leftist push towards demilitarisation.
Also, Gamelin was leading from far behind, like most commanding generals, while Rommel and Guderian, just as examples, were among the first to cross the Meuse or with the spearheds of their units, thus being able to quickly react to any unexpected situations. And there were more than a few also for them.
In any case, very interesting battle, really. I love that book and, if it weren’t for the current situation at home that is leaving me thoroughly exhausted, I would have read it through already a week ago at least.
Well, heading back to Norwegian Mausers…… :)
As promised, as few photos of my 1940 Mauser-Borsigwalde produced K98k, originally issued to the Kriegsmarine and post WW2 to the Royal Norwegian Navy. A ‘g’ block number probably means it was made around May/June 1940 so didn’t go to Norway during the initial invasion of April 1940, and likely ended up there later on. Who knows, it may have even got there aboard the Bismark, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst etc.
Its all matching (even down to the original floor plate screws) with the exception of the bolt assembly and the butt plate. Bizarrely, the bolt assembly is very close in number being a similar high 9000 number, but in the next letter block, although lack of Waffenamt codes on everything other than the safety lever suggest a later than 1940 bolt? And also strangely, the butt plate is also a high 9000 number as well, but ‘o’ block, and is a ‘37’ code JP Sauer marked one, but probably 1939/40 timeframe so similar to the rifle. I suspect that maybe a post Norwegian service replacement though.
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That is a beauty!
Quote:
Originally Posted by usabaker
me too !!! :thup:
More big piles of Mausers and MG's etc., at the end of this short clip of film of German troops surrendering to British troops in May 1945.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIk8dS70uUQ
I can remember the stories my Dad told me of him doing exactly this when he was with the Royal Engineer's in Germany at the time of the German surrender.
That's a beautiful K98.... Absolutely Superb!Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam
See the last few seconds of the video the British lad had sorted himself out a decent looking German rifle slung over his shoulder :thup:
Well spotted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
I bet he never got it back home though.
My Dad said his RE unit made use of captured MP40's when on Jeep patrols and for initial POW sorting and guarding while they were trying to get as many German Pioneer troops out of POW camps to assist the RE's in clearance and building works of services, sewers etc. Dad said the folding stock and ability to carry the MP40 slung at the ready meant it was so much better than carrying a STEN or a rifle. After a couple of months when it became clear there was little need to be armed full time, the cache of MP40's and MP44's his units had "acquired" had to be 'surrendered'.
Dad admitted though that when he returned to the UK in early 1946, he tried bringing back a Luger and a P38, but the MP search teams on the troopship out of Kiel were very thorough in their searchs and all rifles, pistols and the odd MP40 found among their kit were all thrown over the side once out to sea. All he brought back were his collection of ceremonial German dress daggers and a few medals acquired, which he lost when he was on his 12 months tour in Palestine, as his younger brothers found them at home, and nicked them taking them to school and swapping them all for cigarette cards etc....:bitch::mad:
In the 80's and 90's I'd take him with me to Sunday morning militaria fairs, to get him out the house etc., as he never lost the interest, and he got very grumpy when he'd see a dealer with a dagger he had brought back and what they were then worth...
My Dad worked at the shipyard at Prince Rupert BC in WW2 building Liberty Ships and Corvette 's
The US Military had troops stationed there for going to Alaska to fight the Japanese.
In 1946 he worked on big barges with big Cat's on them. They loaded all of the Canadian and American military equipment on to the barges and took it out to one of three dumping grounds and pushed it off into the Ocean.
In about 1965, the Canadian Navy came and packed up all of the guns and ammo from the Armory in PR and dumped it. Most of it was WW2 , kept there in case the Russian's
I know a gent in his 90s who worked in the canneries on the coast. He has some stories to tell about the US military base near Prince Rupert. Apparently there was a large and very well equipped hospital that was bull-dozed and burned, complete with equipment in it.
He said something about the US base near Rupert having a reputation as being a popular hide-out for some scions who felt that was close enough to the sharp end for them.