X8 Trials rifle Bayonet

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10-29-2020, 08:31 PM
Flying10uk

4 Attachment(s)

X8 Trials rifle Bayonet

Imperial L1A1 SLR & Military Accessories UK recently had a X8 trials X2 E1 bayonet come into stock. Basically I believe that it is a slightly shortened FN FAl bayonet with UK markings. Anthony, the proprietor sent me a few images of the bayonet to see if I wanted to purchase it. While querying if the scabbard was correctly marked to go with the bayonet, as apposed to being a plain FN scabbard, the bayonet got sold to someone else.

I asked Anthony if I could reproduce the images here because I thought that other forum members may be interested to see them and he kindly agreed.

https://www.milweb.net/webvert/a4057/96468
10-30-2020, 04:50 PM
Lee Enfield

I'll dig an X2E1 bayo out - it looks to me like yours has had the tip shortened.
10-30-2020, 09:04 PM
browningautorifle

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Enfield

it looks to me like yours has had the tip shortened.

Agreed, that one looks stubbed off. They were almost a work of art originally... This one owned by our own Capt Stevens...
10-30-2020, 10:09 PM
Flying10uk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Enfield

it looks to me like yours has had the tip shortened.

Yes, the vendor said that it had been shortened by the UK army. I hesitated about buying it until I checked that the scabbard was correct to the bayonet, in which time it had been sold. I am not that familiar with the trails bayonets but I do have a couple of FN FAL bayonets and as this bayonet wasn't cheap I wanted to be sure of what I was getting before parting with my cash.

Did the Uk officially shorten some of these bayonets as part of the trail or did this one likely have the tip broken off and was then tidied up by grinding at the end, please?
10-31-2020, 05:43 AM
bayo_madness

1 Attachment(s)

Attachment 112001

BRITISH Trials X2E1 Type A FN F.A.L. Experimental Bayonet & X1E1 Scabbard
Manufactured by Fabrique Nationale (FN) in Belgium c.1954-55

The Wooden Grip versions of the F.A.L. Bayonet was designated for use in British Trials, Canadian Trials and Australian Trials - Designated as Type A. The other variations to this bayonet hold differing grips and other aspects to the prongs that differ - These examples were Type B and Type C. The wood grip designated version was not a commercial or re-branded bayonet and it is should be noted that all wood grip F.A.L. Bayonets were intended and supplied as part of contracts to England, Canada and Australia.

It is worth while noting that while a majority of X2E1 Bayonets trialed by Britain, Australia and Canada hold some form of the X2E1 markings and / or serial numbers, there are also examples for Australia and Britain where the Trials X2E1 bayonet held no identifying marks.

"X" - Prefix in Weapons nomenclature
"E" - Series of Subsequent Changes
These were ONLY applied to TRAILS or Prototypes

There were two tips as noted with the first example, these were modified as a result of damage. Both the long and short tip X2E1 bayonets were part of the trials.

I had heard that after the trials, the X2E1 was unsuccessful with the vast majority of the Type A bayonets having the blades broken, sold to a scrap yard with examples now out in the market with the blades welded back. Important to look for signature signs of this occurring.
10-31-2020, 06:21 AM
browningautorifle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying10uk

did this one likely have the tip broken off

I think he was feeding you bullsh...well, you know. Remember that trials equipment usually was trialed to destruction. The bayonet in question was one of those. We don't shorten our bayonets, that one broke and was cleaned up after.
10-31-2020, 11:45 AM
Lee Enfield

Quote:

Originally Posted by bayo_madness

Attachment 112001

BRITISH Trials X2E1 Type A FN F.A.L. Experimental Bayonet & X1E1 Scabbard
Manufactured by Fabrique Nationale (FN) in Belgium c.1954-55

The Wooden Grip versions of the F.A.L. Bayonet was designated for use in British Trials, Canadian Trials and Australian Trials - Designated as Type A. The other variations to this bayonet hold differing grips and other aspects to the prongs that differ - These examples were Type B and Type C. The wood grip designated version was not a commercial or re-branded bayonet and it is should be noted that all wood grip F.A.L. Bayonets were intended and supplied as part of contracts to England, Canada and Australia.

It is worth while noting that while a majority of X2E1 Bayonets trialed by Britain, Australia and Canada hold some form of the X2E1 markings and / or serial numbers, there are also examples for Australia and Britain where the Trials X2E1 bayonet held no identifying marks.

"X" - Prefix in Weapons nomenclature
"E" - Series of Subsequent Changes
These were ONLY applied to TRAILS or Prototypes

There were two tips as noted with the first example, these were modified as a result of damage. Both the long and short tip X2E1 bayonets were part of the trials.

I had heard that after the trials, the X2E1 was unsuccessful with the vast majority of the Type A bayonets having the blades broken, sold to a scrap yard with examples now out in the market with the blades welded back. Important to look for signature signs of this occurring.

While the X2E1 and Canadian Ex1 bayos are similar if not identical, there is a subtle difference in the shape of the latch.

If a bayonet is marked X2E1 it is NOT Canadian...

Canadian bayonets were un marked (except with standard FN inspectors markings) and only marked with the rifle serial number - usually at unit level.
11-01-2020, 10:00 PM
bayo_madness

2 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Enfield

While the X2E1 and Canadian Ex1 bayos are similar if not identical, there is a subtle difference in the shape of the latch.

If a bayonet is marked X2E1 it is NOT Canadian...

Canadian bayonets were un marked (except with standard FN inspectors markings) and only marked with the rifle serial number - usually at unit level.

Attachment 112052
Attachment 112053

Always great to hear differing views and information :)

Attached is a what I believe is a Canadian version of the Type A FAL. It holds the X2E1 prefix along with the scribed electric pencil serial number on the pommel.

If the information I hold is correct the following apply.

Canadian Ordred F.A.L. 2,000 qty Rifles.
Most X2E1 Bayonets were numbered on the Pommel 1-2000.
Serial Numbers is a four digit, either stamped or scribed electric pencil.
Some X2E1 Bayonets do not hold the Serial Numbers.
Most, but not all scabbards were marked X1E1 on the top scabbard at the throat.
As per the Canadian Army EME Manual Small Arms C 803 Instr 4 dated 14 December 1954.

Always open to correcting this as the X2E1 is a bayonet Im keen to know more about.

Cheers,
Dane
11-02-2020, 10:34 AM
Lee Enfield

Quote:

Originally Posted by bayo_madness

Attachment 112052
Attachment 112053

Always great to hear differing views and information :)

Attached is a what I believe is a Canadian version of the Type A FAL. It holds the X2E1 prefix along with the scribed electric pencil serial number on the pommel.

If the information I hold is correct the following apply.

Canadian Ordred F.A.L. 2,000 qty Rifles.
Most X2E1 Bayonets were numbered on the Pommel 1-2000.
Serial Numbers is a four digit, either stamped or scribed electric pencil.
Some X2E1 Bayonets do not hold the Serial Numbers.
Most, but not all scabbards were marked X1E1 on the top scabbard at the throat.
As per the Canadian Army EME Manual Small Arms C 803 Instr 4 dated 14 December 1954.

Always open to correcting this as the X2E1 is a bayonet Im keen to know more about.

Cheers,
Dane

Your X2E1 bayonet is serial numbered 11877, well above any Canadian rifle.

I could only speculate on the e-penned number - but it definitely isn't Canadian.

given a reminder or 2 I will dig out a couple Canadian and Brit bayonets - and maybe both of my "type 2" (T-48) bayos
11-02-2020, 07:10 PM
Flying10uk

Thanks for all the replies and input everyone.
11-02-2020, 08:12 PM
bayo_madness

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Enfield

Your X2E1 bayonet is serial numbered 11877, well above any Canadian rifle.

I could only speculate on the e-penned number - but it definitely isn't Canadian.

given a reminder or 2 I will dig out a couple Canadian and Brit bayonets - and maybe both of my "type 2" (T-48) bayos

I had thought the numerals along side the X2 E1 stamp related to the original Canadian Defense order from the Brits.

This will be good to further investigate as reference material I hold indicates the the Canadian Serial numbers where placed on the pommel with the example I have shown appearing to hold a correct serial number range in the electric stencil format.

I have few other X2 E1 examples as well and will pull them out to cross check :) ... One other Canadian (or so I believe), a British and unconfirmed (partly confirmed without evidence) Australian example.

Cheers,
Dane
11-02-2020, 08:53 PM
Lee Enfield

Quote:

Originally Posted by bayo_madness

I had thought the numerals along side the X2 E1 stamp related to the original Canadian Defense order from the Brits.

This will be good to further investigate as reference material I hold indicates the the Canadian Serial numbers where placed on the pommel with the example I have shown appearing to hold a correct serial number range in the electric stencil format.

I have few other X2 E1 examples as well and will pull them out to cross check :) ... One other Canadian (or so I believe), a British and unconfirmed (partly confirmed without evidence) Australian example.

Cheers,
Dane

Canada did not order anything from the Brits.

Canada ordered the 2000 Ex1 & Ex2 rifles from FN in June/July 1953 well before the UK and USA ordered their Trials Rifles in Dec 1953.

The Ex1 & X2E1 bayonets were manufactured by FN in Belgium.

This is why the commercial FAL was termed FAL - Canada until the German G1 sight and gas block redesign c.1958.
11-03-2020, 01:13 PM
Flying10uk

Was there any other style of trials bayonet for the SLR? I can't remember the details but I seem to recall a dealer having a "rare" bayonet that they claimed to be a SLR trials bayonet and that it was expensive. I think that it may have been a tubular style bayonet.
11-04-2020, 08:41 AM
browningautorifle

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying10uk

I think that it may have been a tubular style bayonet.

Those were the FAL, the metric rifle bayonet. Not so rare...this one?
11-04-2020, 09:07 AM
Daan Kemp

Particularly useless bayonet IIRC.
11-04-2020, 01:41 PM
browningautorifle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daan Kemp

Particularly useless

I never got to use them but looks like they could be...less than stellar.
11-04-2020, 05:04 PM
Flying10uk

Quote:

Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Those were the FAL, the metric rifle bayonet. Not so rare...this one?

I take it that there was never a trials tubular style bayonet for the trials SLR rifle then?
11-04-2020, 06:56 PM
browningautorifle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying10uk

a trials tubular style bayonet

Not that I'm aware, we had the little knife type and then it changed with the US type slotted flash eliminator we all adopted. The tube fit another F/H.