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So what is is this stubby round I seem to have acquired? The RG .303 Mk7 is just for comparison.
I am afraid my ammo knowledge is pretty limited.
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Attachment 112062Attachment 112063Attachment 112064Attachment 112065
So what is is this stubby round I seem to have acquired? The RG .303 Mk7 is just for comparison.
I am afraid my ammo knowledge is pretty limited.
Feeling a trifle a trifle stupid as this looks rather like 7.62 54r..... would that be correct? And if so I’m still interested in any head stamp info.
8mm Lebel
Interesting!!! I really do know nothing, about anything that isn’t 577, 577/450, or 303.
That little ring around the primer is to catch the bullet tips of the previous round when loaded in a Lebel rifles tubular magazine and prevent chain detonation (hence how they put a pointy bullet in a tube fed rifle). Personally I quite like the round, its very tactile and easy to reload for once you have the brass.
I would suggest the round is more likely for the 8mm Hotchkiss machine gun... the rifle round had a much deeper groove around the primer for the reason Eagleford says..
The 8x50mmR Lebel round was a real dog.. it was the result of an unholy and hurried mating of the 11mm Gras case and an 8mm smokeless barrel as a result of Gen Boulanger stamping his little foot and demanding the first smokeless military rifle be produced in six months...! The French ended up with a wedge shaped round that was almost impossible to handle mechanically.. instant Banana magazines and the main issue behind the disaster that was the Chachault and three round clips! The last main user of the round was the Hotchkiss MMG which fed the rounds on pressed metal trays!
It took the French from the 1880s to after WW2 to rid themselves of this PoS...
That said, I have a Lebel I liberated in Kandahar and it shoots pretty well. You can get cases from Privi and it shoots standard .323 mauser bullets, although the Privi cases are better with .324/5 if you can find them....
I saw the Turkish army doing gun drills with them out in the flats close to the old Nicosia airport in 1980...unmistakable guns and hard to believe they were still active.Quote:
Originally Posted by bombdoc
Thanks all for you knowledge!
My next unknown round is depicted below sandwiched between a 30-06 and a 7.62 NATO
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7.92 x 57 Mauser maybe
Need a flatter picture...
8x57 as loaded in Israel for the IDF in 1957.
Cheers
Looks like a Lebel
please enlighten us as to how the liberation happened - I'm genuinely curious. In my prior life, liberating and taking back such trophies was (and still is) very prohibited.Quote:
Originally Posted by bombdoc
I asked specifically about that during the Kosovo and Former Yugo crap...and was told clearly that ANYTHING could be brought back for "Training aids" as long as it was written up by the Battalion Commander at the time. Now I KNOW for a fact most of those people see themselves as a future Chief of Defense and therefore a future Prime Minister...so most wouldn't even consider it. They DID have the authority to bring back though...Quote:
Originally Posted by ssgross
Your last photo looks like 7,92x57mm with the Israeli headstamp. I have some Israeli 7,92 that was converted to 7,62 NATO back around the early 1960's as only factory SP cartridges were available at that time. That is how I noticed the headstamp, ball 7,62 was in demand.Attachment 112352Attachment 112353Attachment 112354Attachment 112355
The 8mm Lebel loaded clip is for the RSC Model 1917 French semi auto rifle, they manufactured some 86K during WW!
For a period in the 2000s Brits deemed it acceptable to bring back firearms from Afghan provided they were genuine antiques (..no repros) and were legal to possess in UK. I probably should not have used the term "liberated"! The gun in question was bought quite legally from a local! I was also involved in removing weaponry from the locals on less than friendly terms, however these were either destroyed or re-assigned (..mostly destroyed as they were usually in gash order!)Quote:
Originally Posted by ssgross
There was also arrangements for recovering firearms for official use as training aids.. although it was strange the number of gold plated AK's that were needed by training establishments!
Most of the guns that were being traded were of the Martini Henry or Snider variety. How a Lebel ended up in Afghan is anyone's guess. I suspect it came across the Gulf from Djibouti into Pakistan and up to Afghan.. if only they could talk eh!
They had to be checked by Ammo techs/EOD before the RAF would allow them back to ensure they were free from explosives. We also instigated a scheme to filter out modern and reproduction guns which would be illegal in UK. The Lebel was a funny one! The calibre did not appear on either the banned or permitted lists! They were not in production at the time, so were classed as "obsolete" although since then, Privi Partizan now loads them!
After I left the theatre, some idiot airman was caught trying to reload a Martini in UK and the shutters were slammed shut! - There's always one!
Israeli 7.92 x 57.