Stock repair and fitting

Stuck at home too much this year is putting a dent in my backlog. Up next is a Gibbs repro 1903a4. The stock has a cmp cartouche. The rifle shoots just fine - pretty good as is, ~1.25" at 100yds. But,
1) Under the front band, the hole for the screw was mis-drilled (even nicked the barrel), and then just opened up to fix it. Now it looks like it was dug out with a spoon.
Attachment 112279Attachment 112280
The band is very tight - takes a nylon punch and love taps to get it on and off. However, the required small gap between the top and the barrel is there.
I have debated on how to clean it up. I've thought about drilling it out, gluing in a dowel, and redialing the hole, or filling it with epoxy, or sawdust+glue like you would any other application.
2) The stock is fat. The forearm sticks out well proud of the handgaurd, and the barrel bands need driven on/off with nylon love taps. It is also fat in the other direction, the walls of the barrel channel are high. When the action is screwed in, the the handgaurd base ring sits so low that there is stress on the base of the handgaurd.
Attachment 112281
The tight fit on the front band (covering the botched hole) is due to the high wall as well. So, if I fix the outside profile, I'll need that screw hole snug as the band is likely to fit normally when I'm done.
3) lastly, it's fat in it's magazine to action fit - way to big a gap between the magazine and the receiver. The follower easily gets stuck at the top, causing the last round feed difficult if at all, and loading the magazine takes a delicate balancing act.

I plan to attack one thing at a time - advice for fixing that hole first?
After that, I'll carefully check the bedding before I start releiving material at the trigger guard to bring the magazine up. Next I'll follow Chucks advice on trimming the tang bushing 1/8" to improve metal-wood contact. Lastly, I'll lightly sand down the outside, and relieve the upper surface of the forearm. Still debating wether to inlet the hand guard for the little clips, but that is mutually exclusive from anything else.

Drill and dowel the front hole. Drilling is done very carefully...

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Drill and dowel the front hole. Drilling is done very carefully...

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That was my instinct. What worries me is the hole is so close to the top and weirdly shaped. I suppose I can make a jig to clamp the top part of forearm to a fence on my drill press, and go very slowly with a forstner bit to keep it from pulling off-center. The top of the dowel will protrude significantly into the barrel bed area, and have to be inletted. I'm a bit worried getting it nice and smooth without affecting the bedding. I suppose if I can get it close chisels, I can afford a couple thousandths all around smoothing it out with sandpaper. probably good to tape off the area around where the dowel protrudes initially to make it harder to get carried away.
For quick reference, here is the discussion with chuck's posts about his simple bedding improvement by trimming the tang bushing. I'm not sure what happened to the pictures he showed, but I'm sure his targets looked nice.
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=11313
I'll post back pictures of my progress, and lessons learned along the way.

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Originally Posted by ssgross

I suppose I can make a jig to clamp the top part of forearm to a fence on my drill press, and go very slowly with a forstner bit to keep it from pulling off-center. The top of the dowel will protrude significantly into the barrel bed area, and have to be inletted. I'm a bit worried getting it nice and smooth without affecting the bedding. I suppose if I can get it close chisels, I can afford a couple thousandths all around smoothing it out with sandpaper. probably good to tape off the area around where the dowel protrudes initially to make it harder to get carried away.

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Yes. Lots of gentle strength and a sharp bit. Only one opportunity to make it right...it'll work fine. I'd clamp the front in my cross slide vise so it's absolutely captive for the operation...

the buggered hole at it's worst is 0.445, and only 0.232 away from the top. I'll go very slow indeed, and likely sand my dowel to not fit too snuggly, and pressure could split/crack the little bit remaining on the top wall.
Looks like I'll need to buy a walnut dowel online, and wait to finish my job. I could use oak or poplar, which the big box has, but I'd prefer walnut to maximize my chances of hiding it as much as possible.

EDIT: While I wait, I decided to check the inletting in the forearm. Wiped some jerrow's inletting black around the whole barrel (a little goes a very long way!), and gently put the action in, followed by handgaurd and bands. No black on any wood except the bedding area pictured below, and a smidge on the front band. I think there is room for improvement there after fixing the hole. that high spot in the right of the pic is causing the other side to contact that little spot on the band.
I went to double check since I didn't have the action screws in (which would change pressure)...and to my surprise there is no rear bushing! Good thing I've only put maybe 50 rounds through it tops. One is on the way.
Attachment 112313

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Originally Posted by ssgross

I'll need to buy a walnut dowel

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Originally I thought of just using a plug cutter for that but you need a decent piece of walnut to be donor and getting it to cut and not slit apart while you work could be close to magic...so dowel it is I guess. Yes, walnut dowel. Make blending easier.

the nose is ~1inch wide, so I would need a 2x2 piece to make a plug. You have a point - using a plug I can cut it cross grain so it matches the grain direction on the stock, as opposed to using a dowel and having the end grain showing, but I don't have a plug cutter that can go 1", so dowel it is. I think is to cut a clean and uniform 1/2" hole, and sand my dowel so that it just barely slips in with little effort, and use plenty of wood glue, or epoxy, to fix it in place. I've never done such a delicate repair up against a delicate edge. Should I worry about future expansion/contraction of the repair splitting the stock?

UPDATE: Here is the patient, before and after surgery. Only the slightest tearing on the exit wound.
Should I use wood glue or epoxy on the insert?
Attachment 112358Attachment 112356Attachment 112357

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Originally Posted by ssgross

Should I worry about future expansion/contraction of the repair splitting the stock?

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I don't think so...other opinions may vary but no one has chipped in so far. Too bad too, there are a few here that have committed magic with utter field trash...

Final hole looks good and clean. After is a touch of fine paper anyway.

That hole looks like an excavation!

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Originally Posted by ssgross

Should I use wood glue or epoxy on the insert?

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I just saw this question, I would have used Brownell's microbed and that's a two tube epoxy...so I guess it should work. If it's clean a carpenter's glue should work too. It's more of a filler plug not a working area so it's just going to be held in place.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

If it's clean a carpenter's glue should work too. It's more of a filler plug not a working area so it's just going to be held in place.

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I suppose it's just a filler plug. then again there isn't much meat left - just the 1/4 or so of the sidewalls, and about the same on the bottom. If I want to reserve the right to do any bayonet fighting in this rifle's future, I should probably use epoxy :)

At the groin "Point and remain"...

I set up to check the fit at the action while I wait on the to finish my forend repair. I started with inletting black around the recoil lug, and the flat behind it - using inletting screws to set it down straight (taped the magazine in it's place), then stock fitting t-handle screws to lock it in place.
Attachment 112412
As you can see, I'm only getting contact on 1/2 of the lug, and 1/2 of the flat. Easy fix on the flat. For the lug area, I can shave the high spot, and then if I don't get contact any more, I need to move that little rounded area where the trigger guard contacts back a bit. This would set the whole action back slightly.

Without removing any material, I then checked the tang, just to get an idea.
Attachment 112413
I think this looks good? nice even contact around the sides, no contact at the back, and no contact under the screw hole.

Next, with everything tight, I checked the magazine fit since I had stuck follower issues. There is indeed a large gap - more so towards the back than the front, although front is still big.
Attachment 112414Attachment 112415Attachment 112416
I think the pictures make the gap look smaller than it is because of the angle.

To address the overall fit, I'll start at the recoil lug, then the tang if it's needed. Then I have a decision to fix the feed cap. lower the bearing surfaces of the action, deepen the inletting of the trigger guard, or a combination of both. The last option I think is best as I can get a near perfect fit up top on all surfaces, then close the magazine gap within spec by adjusting the trigger guard inletting. This also has the advantage of increasing upward pressure from the barrel bed - so I won't get into any rules issues using the height of my dowel fix to adjust the pressure.

If this isn't the right approach, please chime in. Fall back plan is to order a perty Minelli stock and do it all from scratch. NO Dremel....hand chisels, scrapers, and files only.

Funny thing, I went to look at my 03a3 that has no feed issues for comparison. It's in an original straight stock. Magazine spacing is nice and tight...too tight. A little inletting black on the top edges of the magazine, and front screw hole, shows contact on the action. I suppose I need to file down top edges of the magazine until I don't get contact any longer.

EDIT: "Doco Overboard" has a really nice tips on the mdshooters forum https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=232416
Is the bottom of the tang screw hole supposed to contact wood?

Easy does it on the fitting, can't go backwards. Don't know about the tang screw hole...

walnut dowel came in yesterday, along with a trigger screw bushing. Dowel fits in just perfect with no alterations required to hole or dowel. The hole for the bushing is oversized and does not hold the bushing in the least, it falls out. It likely had one and fell out during first disassembly.
I'll get the dowel in and flush on all 3 sides with the stock, then final fit trigger guard inletting and flat behind the lug for magazine depth and upward bedding pressure at my repair, then trim trigger screw bushing to length (1/8" below wood as per chuck), and lock it in place with epoxy. Pics of progress to come over the holidays.

I think the patient will survive.
Attachment 113197Attachment 113198Attachment 113199Attachment 113200Attachment 113202Attachment 113201
To get the profile on the outside, I used 60 grit sandpaper on a dremmel to get within a mm of the stock, then switched to a file. Once it was smooth to touch, I rubbed on some white lithium grease with a brush, fit the band, and lightly filed the contact areas until it fit nice-n-snug, but came on and off by hand. Then I marked the hole, and went back to the same jig to drill it...perfect...
except wouldn't ya know, I still couldn't put the screw on when on the rifle. Tried another band I had lying around from another project...and perfect. The holes on the original band didn't line up as manufactured. Aha...this is why the Gibbs people buggered the screw to begin with. Not wanting to waste a newly parkerized band with R stamp and all just because the holes were off, I carefully opened my hole up in the direction it needed to go with a needle file, as opposed to wiggling the drill around and digging it out with a spoon like Gibbs did. All is well now.
First range report: 1.25" group at 100yds - but I think I can squeeze a bit more out of it. I was consistently getting 2-3 shots inside a dime, then a few flyers all over...scratch my head thinking it was me, and then put 2-3 more back in the dime.
I went over the rifle again when I got home. The bolt handle slightly touches wood when closed - one only can tell with the scope off because the safety won't fully turn over.
Plus, the gen. 1 repro scope...with the backwards knobs (easy enough to swap), had the reticle come loose after half a dozen shots before all this work the screws on the plate where the knobs are came loose, and the brass plate that the rear one screws in to fell down inside. I reset it, Loctite on the screws all seems well, but I'm not convinced it's holding zero based on the performance I described. I'm going to mount my nice 24x scope on this rifle and see what I get. I may also make an epoxy "shim" to evenly bed the cheap repro scope base. This should all squeeze the group size down a bit.
After work, I'll post back with details about how the final stock fitting went. Need to stare at my other screen to pay the bills for a bit :bash:

Sure looks better than it started...

The bedding...Doco from mdshooters has a nice summary here
https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?p=5475522
with pics. On this boyds-cmp stock, the bottom of the tang makes no contact, and the tang sidewalls are tight to make the wood creak as the tang spreads it apart when tightening the rear screw.
I started with the recoil lug...the front hole was drilled to far forward, so the front bushing (welded onto the magazine) was acting as the recoil lug. Not good. I relieved the back of that. It's hard to get in there with a palm chisel, and so took a very long time to get it right.
Next, I started relieving the sidewalls until I had uniform contact on the receiver flat, which acts as a fulcrum. Then I continued working on both together until I had contact under the tang, tang walls, and receiver flat. I then checked for contact all along the side of the receiver, and relieved as needed. A problem presented itself. At the moment the bottom tang finally made contact, the recoil lug made contact with the bushing and I could not tighten the screw! In order to proceed any further, I verified there was no contact between receiver and magazine (still quite a gap), and compared the front bushing length against another rifle. This one is long, so no hard feelings using a file and knocking it down until I get good compression on the receiver flat.
Next, I checked the barrel bed for contact..wait I forget to mention that every time I played with the flat and tang, I also double checked the barrel channel for no contact between receiver and barrel bed. At one point I noticed shiny wood under the handgaurd ring...had to relieve there.
Now the bedding is perfect to my liking. The gap between mag and receiver is small enough to prevent the follower from sticking, but still some room shave the flat area just a bit to increase barrel bed pressure if needed later.
However, the outside stock profile now has wood sticking up past the tang by ~1/16 or more...that's how far off deep the inletting under the tang was cut. ...oh yeah...don't forget to trim the rear bushing so it's just below the wood! I used a wrap of tape to keep it tight in the oversized hole.
I lastly discovered contact of the bolt handle with wood, and relieved there. If I redo the contour around the tang, I will sand the whole stock and refinish.
I swapped out the cmp handgaurd, with no clips and misaligned with the stock, with the nice handgaurd that came with my Minelli a3 stock...I used the Minelli on my 1903a1 project in another thread. It matches nice, lines up good, and has the handgaurd clip area milled already.

I rebuilt the scope that came on it, it was one of the M73 "gen 1" repro that came with the early Gibbs rifles - lots of complaints on these. Took it to the range again, and same behavior as before - 3 shots or so almost in overlapping holes at 100yds, then a few wild fliers, then back where they were. I'm convinced now it isn't me - and here is why. After the first 3 great shots, I went to move over a couple clicks, and down just 2 clicks. I wasn't even on the page anymore. Target back to 25yds showed that I needed a full 1.5 turns up on the elevation knob to get back on target! That's a 30 MOA change from 2 clicks which were supposed to be 1 MOA!
I broke down and bought the Gen4 Hi-Lux. Talk about fast service - I ordered Friday morning, and it arrived today from Torrence CA to VA! Half the cost of the scope must be in the free shipping. The glass is infinitely better than the Gibbs gen1 repro. Can't wait to get it on the rifle and back to the range.