Printable View
Does anyone know what dates each of the magazine variants were introduced? I assume this is in the LoC but I do not have a copy of the List. A pointer to a good source for the LoC would be appreciated as well or in lieu of dates for each magazine. I have 4th Variation, 3rd from 2nd, 3rd from 1st, and hopefully soon a 2nd Variation, and a mess of early rifles to rebuild. I'd like to pair the right style magazine with the right rifle. Thanks in advance.
-Will
L E magazines are not swap in out to rifles they are fitted to a rifle. Any combination will be found every where. Except the 6 & 8 round they were model specific and early ammo types. The mag models are more to do with the ammo being used. Mark 7 needed a different mag to Mark 6. When the rifles were converted to Mark 7 the mag had to be converted as well. Depending on who converted the mag depends on what was done. Hence the different mags out there doing the same job for Mark 7 ammo.
You may have a No1Mk3 rifle that started life using Mk6 ammo which was converted to Mk7 needing a new mag, putting a Mk6 mag back in is incorrect as the rifle will have the SC stamps showing it has been converted.
If you would have asked this question in a month I could give you all the info, but in writing my book I am only up to 1906. So first variation LoC 11715, 1903 (bottom), second is LoC 13577, 1906 (top). Link removed from first variation, 1906 LoC 13509
@Bindi2, understood. I am building these up from stripped actions - some MkIs and MkIIIs of various submodels. I'll have to fit a magazine to each one anyways so I'd like to make sure it's the right one. All of the MkIII bodies are post 1910 so they are all for MkVII ammunition, and I have both early and late style sights and sight beds for the MkIs.
@Lance, thanks! I will keep an eye out, I'm definitely not going to have all these wrapped up in a month.
Edit - I guess those pictures raise a couple more questions. On my converted magazines, neither has holes for a chain loop. The one that I believe to be an ex-1st type (on the left in each photo, no number visible under the 3) has the remains of the loop on the inside. Would those have been welded over in service or were they tacked up by civilian owners later? Or were some of the 2nd types made without loops? The 3rd/ex 2nd type has a roman numeral "II" in the inside bottom, if that's useful information.
When you build up from the action be sure you build it to what the final modification marked on the action is. Do you have a supply of Mk1 barrels for Mk6 ammo. If you are just screwing in SC barrels then any mag is correct . The Brits ,Aussies or anyone else were not concerned about what came out had to go back in the same. Parts are parts. Modified mags are a collection of parts.
No matter what you do the rifles will still be Bitzers not FTRd rifles .
Do you know why the rifles were stripped out, do you have the correct gauges to do a FTR . If you can not say yes to the gauges don't attempt it for a shooter. For a non firing wall hanger go for it.
I have found gentle force can fit these magazines to just about any rifle. However, my experience is with No1Mk111* and No4Mk11 and needing many magazines for competition. Small hammer on the tight area, patience, no brute force.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindi2
@Bindi2, that is the plan. Quite a bit of variety there including a MkI*, I**, I*** and then the normal blend of MkIIIs and III*s. I don't have any non-SC barrels other than the one on the sportered MkI***, unfortunately, but the SC change should not change point of impact, and the exterior profile is identical. The MkI sight base will likely obscure part or all of the HV/SC markings, if I don't clean them up. The more important bit will be to match the magazine to the sights, and I do have sight bases for both MkVI and MkVII ammunition as well as the appropriate rear sights. Barleycorn front sights are on my list to hunt down. I have some gauges, and am seeking out others, but I am fairly comfortable as to rebuilding these rifles. None have DP or Z series marks, and the .410 converted scrubbed actions are slated for special low pressure builds like a De Lisle. Most of them won't see anything more than a few rounds to test my stocking up job and then blanks anyways. They will of course always be bitsers and nothing but, and I keep a record of all of them by description and serial as to how they were when I acquired them and what I've done. Should I sell one, that information would be published here and on other boards to make it difficult to try to pass them off as anything but. That's fairly unlikely though as I've only ever sold one firearm in my life.
@Daan Kemp This is my experience as well. I've fit new magazines for myself and customers. There's usually a bit of fiddling but they can generally be made to work as intended. I have a 3rd/ex 1st type magazine that will test my mettle as it was DP'd, probably for the very large dent in the bottom and the sides being a bit bowed. It's a fairly rare magazine, and not a pressure bearing part, so I'm taking a stab at fixing it.
Chargers are for reloads. A bandoleer of 10 x 5 = 50 rounds and off we went as did every Commonwealth soldier
Was watching a TV documentary on WW1, it was made some years ago and they were interviewing some of the 'boy-soldiers' who had joined up aged 15, 16 and 17.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindi2
The Infantry soldiers pack weighed 109 pounds (+ rifle) and not only did he have to carry 200 rounds of his 'own' ammunition, but was required to carry 'food' for the machine guns, grenades etc etc.
It showed some original footage of soldiers slipping of the duck-boards and just disappearing into the mud because of the weight they were carrying. They could not be helped as everyone else was in the same position. They just had to watch them sink and drown.
I was not aware that they 'only' served 4 days in the frontline and then were sent back for a weeks R&R, the R&R usually turned into unloading artillery rounds from trucks / trains, digging emplacements, or laying a 'manually powered' narrowgauge railway across the torn up landscape for transporting wood, ammunition, food etc etc. All too soon it was back into the front line.
4 days in that hell in either Gallopoli or the Western front would be enough for anyones nerves and as far as that goings on with what 4 days on 1 week off trapsing across the desert towards Palestine chasing the fleeing Turks...
My Enfield 1907 is marked ConD 11* also has a matching '07 dated barrel, the rear sight base is early and the barrel is without the SC or HV stamps, front sight is barleycorn.
The magazine that came with this rifle is marked 2 and the follower is also marked 2
I don't like to quote myself, but, some time ago, I wrote an article about magazines:
Caricatori Lee Enfield
I hope it will be useful.
A good article, well worth reading.