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Hi all. I recently purchased an excellent M1917 Browning, serial number 194xxx.
Everything looks great, feels great but.. it has a cut in the chamber. Has anyone here seen something like this, and if so, can that same person tell me what it means?
Best regards.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7chamber-1.jpg
Here is a link that explains the notch. This was a Danish or Canadian modified 1917 Enfield made by Winchester in the U.S.
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....h+1917+enfield
Salt Flat
Pretty sure we used them as they were...Canadians that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salt Flat
Thank you so much, Salt Flat. Would you think this notch devalues the rifle? I saw Rock Island Auctions had one up without the notch 8 years back going for $4600. Mine is almost as in good condition. Again, thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salt Flat
Unless I was looking for a pristine example for a collection, I don't think the notch devalues the rifle. I feel that it adds interest in the rifle.
john
These are in a different class than an original issue M1917. These had secondary history and are regarded in a different category I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by hymntothefallen
Ok, that's interesting. Thanks Jim.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Here's some more links to old threads. I think Promo pretty well solved the mystery:
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....l=1#post201805
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=61830&page=2
Salt Flat
---------- Post added at 07:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:03 PM ----------
Jim is right-- I should of said that some of the Danish rifles came from Canada originally. (see Promos post above) Salt FlatQuote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
My previous given information was already quoted. For this particular rifle: I so far do NOT see any sign it was Danish (like for example a pin front sight blade, or Danish sticker on the stock, or serial number on bottom of the rear stock). However, that notch in the receiver makes it certain this particular rifle once had been in Norway. This cut was since the rifles were used with a Norwegian stripper clip adapter that required milling the action since it moved the ammo more forward.
you wrote that you saw 1917 at a Rock Island auction 8 years ago for $4600 ? I do not think that would be a realistic value a for a 1917 rifle in the US
Sold For $4600Quote:
Originally Posted by rice 123
This star on the receiver is weird - cannot remember seeing it on a M1917 action. It more reminds me of the Pattern 1914 rifle.
Anyway, the $ 4600 includes the BP. Without the 15% BP this rifle had hammer price at $ 4000. Deducting what they charge the consignor this leaves the seller at $ 3,600 (10%) or $ 3,200 (at 20%; not sure what they currently charge). So it depends whether you are buyer or seller, but still $ 3,200 are a really good price for a seller, but nowhere the market price - at least not in my opinion.
The star mark denotes early production (before Jan. 1918} Winchesters produced before Ordnance approved interchangeability between all 3 manufacturers was obtained. They were held back from issuance to European theater bound troops until approximately March 1918. This is more thoroughly explained in C.S Ferris book of the 1917.Quote:
Originally Posted by Promo
The above auction rifle is unique in that it is a wonderful apparently unissued early Winchester originally from the Brophy collection. I suspect that drove the price premium.
I did not read the description fully, but you surely are correct that the origin from the Brophy collection must had added a serious premium. Given the serial I would not had considered this rifle early, but just checked my earliest Winchester M1917 (4-digit serial starting with a "1") and you are right - it has the * as well.
Promo, your research and posts through the years have been invaluable to myself and many others. The Ferris book is well researched with John Beard collaborating. And is available for low money on Amazon here in USA.
I would be happy to forward you a copy (gratis} if you will PM an address.
Thanks for the very kind offer, I highly appreciate it. Only "problem", I have this book myself and I'm not greedy and therefore not in need for a second one.
Something kind of funny: The Ferris book sounded like something I should have so I started toward Amazon when something in the back of my mind clicked. I checked the book shelf 10 feet away and......! So now I'm re-reading the Ferris book.
The rifle is not a Browning. Technically Model of 1917 30 Caliber though I am good with P17, Eddystone, 1917 Enfield. M1917 covered all sorts of military stuff so has to be delineated as to what Model of 1917.
The notch cut was not a Danish done. While there were various mods and the most done by the Greenland Patrol, front sights were left as was at least the ones returned.
Denmark did make barrels and some had new Danish marked barrels.
Well, I guess even though we all read what he wrote we didn't care because we were more concerned with answering his question...instead of worrying about that. We all knew what he was talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by RC20
I answered the question a page earlier. The notch was Norwegian. Since the Norwegians gave M1917s to Denmark whereas Denmark previously has received M1917s directly from Canada as well, Denmark therefore had M1917s with and without notch. Those with a notch are former Norwegian rifles, those without made the way directly to Denmark.Quote:
Originally Posted by RC20
The Sirius Sledge Patrol rifles have no connection to this notch, only that they could be based upon either with or without the notch.
Check the calibre carefully.
A number were converted to 7.92 X 57 and were cut that way.
They were done in the 1920's by Edgar Gimard and Co. in Belgium.
I am not a 1917 Purist of terms, 1917 police etc despite Ferris take on it who I respect deeply.Quote:
Well, I guess even though we all read what he wrote we didn't care because we were more concerned with answering his question...instead of worrying about that. We all knew what he was talking about.
I am famous for my typo's as well.
But Browning is totally wrong and I thought it should be pointed out for the benefit of the OP future communications.