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hello
i don't think my original message went out. If it did sorry for the double.
I recently bought a Steyr M95. I was taking it apart for a well needed cleaning when i know so little about it. I know it is a carbine by the length of the barrel. Is it natural or not. It ha very few markings as you will see. Any help would be appreciated sn is 228V what does the V mean, thanks
Need a photo of the rear sight to tell you if it's a true carbine or a cut down rifle. Both are "real", just one is purpose built as a carbine. The others were "modernized" to be shorter between the wars.
here are 2. as you can see i just laid the blade on top as i am redoing things
Do you know what the V is at end of sn
Originally a long rifle converted to the short rifle configuration. Should have a large 'S' or 'H' on the chamber. The V would just be part of the serial number.
Thanks
S or h + 8x56R easy to find
No S or H stamp, then its still 8x50R, time to reload
How about a picture of the top of the barrel with the date and other markings?
If its shortened to carbine length it should be 8x56r. As far as I am aware no one cut down 8x50r rifles into 8x50r carbines.
I wa wondering about that. thanks
---------- Post added at 07:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:43 PM ----------
I wa wondering about that. thanks
There really are no other markings than what I already posted pictures of
Barrel length is 20 inches if that helps
Odd, The serial number font matches so it must not be a replacement barrel. Very odd the markings were scrubbed or never stamped onto the barrel. I see that the index marks align?
S or H would for sure indicate a conversion to 8x56R. Here is a quick way to test in the house. See link.
At a range you can try a live round for fit. Place an 8x56R (preferably an dummy round) into the chamber. If the cartridge rim fits and bottoms out on the chamber face, the rifle barrel is chambered in 8x56R. If the round protrudes about 1//4 inch above the chamber face, the chamber is 8x50R. Note a 8x50R is shorter and will chamber in both barrels / rifles. Use the easy to find 8x56R round, it chambers only in the 8x56R barrel due to its longer size. Those little carbines are a beast to shoot, worse than an Enfield Jungle carbine or M44 Mosin.
Not sure that's an arsenal cut down. The rear sight would have been scrubbed and restamped. This one is original.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../ib82ATs-1.jpg
ok. i would show you but Inga is all torn apart. It has both undernand side swivels, bayonet lug I don't know. thanks
here is mine
it only has numbers on the left side
Always curious about the 'kick' of the No5 rifle. Many write about it but few experienced it. Any other carbine is fine to shoot with no 'extra' recoil, only the No5 has this [undeserved?] reputation.Quote:
Originally Posted by 72 usmc
I find in my old age any carbine with a large, full size cartridge like the Berthier, Mosin, JC, and M95 have more felt kick than the long rifle version. Of course this does not apply to the M1 carbine or 6.5 carcano. Your shoulder can get black and blue marks after about 20-25 rounds. In my younger days it was not so bad. If one is on blood thinners or a diabetic, you can bruse easily. Do not get me wrong, I love the Enfield JC. I got at least two of each production year and also collected the Russian M44s by country of origin. They are great, very load, fireball shooters at dusk. People would be annoyed at the range due to the noise, but the younger ones all wanted to try a shot or two. They loved the fireballs. Then, they would be off to the local fleet & farm store to purchase a $79 M44. Both are sexy looking rifles. That crazy little hard rubber pad on the JC can really dig in and center the impact on your shoulder, in contrast the M95 and M44 at least has a larger flat area to the butt plate that spreads out the kick onto the shoulder. I sold off my M95 carbines, but kept the long rifle 8x56R rifles. They are shown here:
4 different M95 long rifles - Surplus Rifle Forum - www.surplusrifleforum.org
Remember you got to search out .org not .com to find SRF. They switched to surplusrifleforum.org.
As for my JCs, those I will never sell. When Sog and Aim had all the Greek .303, most of us purchased a ton of that HXP ammo. Back in the early 90s, Sog had tons of that Nazi M95, 8x56r in boxes with two unblock mannlicher clips at like $2.25 per box. I still have a few ammo cans full of that stuff. I always liked carbines, nice short rifles to display and fun to shoot if young. After your first heart problems then conditions effect you different like hot & cold weather, or hard impacts to ones shoulder. I say shoot while you can, first to go is eye sight, then maybe knees, and it is down hill from there.
Every shooter should have an M44 carbine and a Enfield JC.:runaway: I also love the short Berthier carbines and the Carcano cavalry carbines with the pig sticker bayonet. :confused:
Unfortunately, in the cold, I am restricted to my basement range with BB pistol replicas. Still fun and ammo is cheep:madsmile:
Yes, the narrow piece of hard rubber probably did more to the reputation of recoil than anything else. It should have been much wider.
I know I have been down this road before trying to identify my 95. The more I have read about the converted carbines there are discrepancies. There is no S anywherein barrel area. Sn matches to receiver, barrel, butt stock. The gun is equipped with both bottom and sling holders. The sight is 3 inches (not sure what constitutes long and short). Distance between front and rear band is 5 inches. Will find out soon when 8x56 dummies get here about cartridge size. I would really appreciate any help putting this to bed. Some info on line is so vague or confusing
Couple of things. It would be helpful if the rifle was put together with better photos to identify it.
I'm looking at that photo of your stock and it looks like a full length stock to me. Admittedly, I'm comparing photos with no reference to actual dimensions. I can't just go grab mine and look at it either, I'm stuck looking at my own photos. They simply don't seem to match up to the carbines. I have one of each an original carbine, a cut down carbine and a full length rifle. But 20 inches is correct for a short rifle so it may simply be a photo illusion.
Your rear sight is that of a full length rifle. It has not been altered, that is how they are marked, only on one side. Matches mine. No S or H on the chamber seems to indicate it was not upgraded either which if a carbine, should have been done.
Attachment 113349
here i am with Inga. She is 39 inches long
I hope this helps I am so confused
Could it be a short rifle? Is that a thing?
I am not identifying the pattern as if it was a cut down long rifle it should have a 'S' or 'H' on the barrel. How are the sling swivels set up on the rifle? Is there a stacking bar on the bayonet attachment? A photo of the opposite side of the rifle assembled would be very helpful. The current theory I am playing with in my mind if it is still in 8x50r (easy to test, try chambering a round of 8x56r if it can't chamber it is in 8x50r) that it might actually be one of the few carbine/stutzen rifle variants they had pre-WWI which someone placed the wrong rear sight on when it was damaged. Photos of the other side could help identify which pattern it could have been. Is there a 5 pointed star stamped in the metal anywhere? Like on barrel band, or back of the receiver? That is a Italian refurbishment/repair marking if it is. Many of the rifles found today in the original caliber came out of Italy as post-WWI they were given a bunch as war reparations.
This website is a handy one for some basic information and a bit about the different variants.
http://hungariae.com/Mann95.htm
Attachment 113353Attachment 113354Attachment 113355Attachment 113353Attachment 113354Attachment 113355
here are 3 more. i have some dummy 8x56 dummy coming hopefully today or tomorrow so that should answer that question. There is a place to screw in a stacking rod. I won one on ebay hesterday wii be here around Christmas the second band has a swivel underneath and loop on side. there is no rear stock swivel.. It was gone.i really appreciate your time on this it has been killing me. sorry somehow i ended up with 2 of everything
serial number 228V
found Ks on bolt and a 6 or 9 bolt.
I dont know if you have seen the pics I posted at the beginning of this thread. Those are the only markings. I just disassembled Inga and found no new ones I had missed. Several K stamps
So since it is missing the rear bottom swivel, I am going to best guess this carbine as a M95 Repeater-Stutzenkarabiner as it would have had both bottom mounted and side mounted sling swivels. No way to 100% tell as I suspect this carbine was used by Italy post-WWI (can't definitively prove it with the info I have) and they could have mixed and matched different parts off different carbines to keep them running or during cleaning etc. The rear sight isn't 100% correct for that rifle but was likely put on there when the original broke and that was what they had around (again would indicate towards Italy as they didn't manufacture them so they didn't have a bunch of spare parts). The Italians also weren't particularly concerned with protecting different variants, and keeping them correct. To the Italians they were simply M95 carbines and they issued all the variants of carbines/short rifles interchangeably as for practical purposes they are. Interesting little carbine, they are really not that appreciated by the collecting community despite the long service in many different wars.
Below is a thread to another M95 Repeater-Stutzenkarabiner that I once owned that was Italian used (found out the star on the front band in the photo was actually a Italian refurbishment marking later on). Hope this helps.
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=52525
Thank you so much.* I never figured it out.* Beautiful Steyr.* So many markings.* Sometimes wonder why mine doesn't have some.* I guess when the 8x56 shows up I will know for sure.
* Again, thanks
Tom
I went and ordered a stock swivel a while back and of course it doesn't fit. I can't find a stutzen part anywhere. Will one from a carbine fit or is stutzel special.
So as I understand it, basically the original Austrian-Hungarian styles of M95 'Carbines/Short rifles' were mainly differentiated by what sling swivels they had and how they were arranged. I am not sure if they were special sizes but I suspect the rear bottom stock sling swivel would be labeled 'M95 Carbine' or something of that nature due to how close the different patterns were and based off the fact basically all the originals were converted to M95/30 (or M95/31) standards.
Thank you
The more I read and looking at pictures the more convinced I have a conversion the sticker is there is no stamp on the barrel. I ordered 8x56 dummy rounds weeks ago to determine what is chambered. My front sight is sitting on a band and there are only 5 inches between the barrel bands. Is it possible to not have a stamp? What would be the benefit of rubbing it out. That would explain why there virtually no stamps at all that area. Any thoughts. Thanks
The Austrian-Hungarians and later nations didn't really apply much in the way of stampings or markings to their rifles. Usually its just serial number, acceptance date, maybe a couple of factory assembly numbers, and thats it. It would be very odd if it was converted to 8x56r and didn't have the 'H' or 'S' stamp on it as the whole point it those were so people didn't get confused as to what ammo it would take which was especially important when the conversions started.
I have been researching for hours on that gun. Something different was going on there with the conversion where barrel was not changed. Reciever and barrel numbers match. They are right next to each other. Original barrel. Still no concrete answer on which round to use. About 3 weeks ago bough some 8x56 dummy rounds but still haven't shown up.that would give me answers to what but not how,why or where. I thank you for that comment since it has always bothered me that there are no stamps just about.
This is why I buy these old guns trying to learn their story
To put in perspective how little was serialized on a M95 long rifle when first manufactured there was 3 locations which had the serial number, the barrel, the receiver, and the stock. Bulgarian contract M95s would also have the bolt numbered to the rifles as well. Many refurbished M95 rifles will have a serial number electro-penciled on the bolts to match to the rifle.
Does your bolt have a serial number on it? And if it does is it stamped or electropenciled?
Yes there is. Stamped I never noticed it before. 359 which does not match my receiver and barrel. Lots of "K"s
---------- Post added at 07:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:41 PM ----------
On my barrel in the area of where there should be an s among others, there appears to be nothing but when looking through a strong magnifying glass there are things like a faint 3 or a and several other lines. Is it possible that someone would have ground them off and if so why?
They didn't re-barrel them when upgrading, they just bored out the chamber for the new cartridge. I doubt your's was converted as in addition to having an S or H stamp on it, the rear sights would have been changed, old numbers ground off and new ones stamped which only use about half the original height. The area where you see the faint 3 is usually where the year of manufacture is stamped. During a refurbishment, these might be polished out, especially if there was pitting in that area. Wasn't a deliberate attempt to hide anything, just make it like "new"
Yours is a bit of a mystery alright.
Something happened to it its barrel is 20 inches. It has swivels under and on the side. Is it possible it was born in austria and went to live somewhere else?
The symbol on your barrel was originally a 'WN-Austrian Eagle-Date' which would have been when it was accepted into Austrian service (not date of manufacture but relatively close). From the photos the first digit looks like a 1 to me and the second is likely 6 which would correspond with 1916 a very common year of manufacture. Those markings can be relatively faint when applied and many are very hard if not impossible to read now.
To me it wouldn't have stayed in Austria as if it had it would have been converted to 8x56r. We can also rule out Hungary and Bulgaria for those reasons. I still suspect Italy as they were basically the largest receiver of them who didn't then send them on to Bulgaria or Hungary later on, thus retaining much of the original features.
Stamped bolts generally mean Bulgarian bolts though, does your bolt have a little hole in the bolt body like this?
Photo 6 of 26, M03 Bulgarian Rifle
No, no hole. This stuff is amazing
Well, they did cut the barrels in addition to boring the chamber. It remains the original barrel. Didn't think to mention that as it is obviously shorter.
I finally got the 8x56 dummy stuff. It wouldn't go all the way in the chamber. I guess it is fairly safe to say I am going to really search for ome 8x50. What is this rifle.i keep looking at it and wondering
Honestly this really has me curious as well. I happen to quite like the Mannlicher rifles and variants as they aren't really a well documented area and they also tend not to be faked as much as others so they tend to be more 'as issued or left service' rifles than most firearms (lack of common ammo and as such the desire to sporterize protected many, as well as later surplus dates).Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay2020
What we do know out of this rifle for 100% sure is it is a Stutzen stock, a 8x50r barrel and receiver, and a odd bolt with stamped serial numbers but is not a Bulgarian bolt, a long rifle rear sight, and the front sight is a long rifles style of front sight. The stock has been re-numbered to the rifle but it isn't original to the rifle as it was originally issued.
My current thoughts are leaning towards the idea that someone who was using M95s post-WWI (possibly Italy but no definitive proof of that) and no spare parts had a Stutzen fail or get damaged in service and/or a M95 long rifle get damaged in service/used as spare parts and wished to replace the Stutzen. They then cut down the long rifle, remounted the front sight on the shortened barrel, and restocked it in the Stutzen stock they had. The Italians did prefer the carbine/short rifle configuration so maybe one of their armourers did it as a one off as they weren't manufacturing new parts for the rifles. This last bit is speculation but I can't give much more than that with the unfortunate lack of markings on the rifle. It is a interesting piece though!
Thanks. I'm gonna keep at it
Last night we received the news that Inga, that's what I call her chambered at 8x50. So an original? Carbine stutzen or vice versa. No need for s
At the moment I figure it was a cut down long rifle that was made into a short rifle for some nation who likely didn't have spare parts for the weapons system. Wouldn't be a hard conversion, just cut a bit off the barrel, cut down the thickness at the end slightly, and remount the front sight. As a machinist I could do that in 2-4 hours. I think short rifle is really about the best term your going to find for it as I doubt whoever was using it at that point was calling them by the original designations.
Well I am embarrassed to say what happened last night. I decided to take my 8x56 dummy rounds and put them in a strip and try to load them. Well they loaded just fine. I guess taking one round and shoving it in there is not the way to do it. Now I know that I have a converted corbine in 8x56 with the stamps ground off.sorry if I wasted anyone's time but until then I had no idea. Thanks
No problem, it was very interesting.
Just a heads up shoving the round in there and closing the bolt is a excellent way to destroy the extractors on M95 rifles as they aren't designed to 'cam over' them. It is one of the most common broken parts on those rifles for that exact reason (usually people don't have the Mannlicher clip and just want to try shooting it). Enjoy the rifle!
I had a casting done of my carbine yesterday and it turns out it is a 8x50. It seems after the ww1 when the Austrians gave Italy a bunch of 95s as part of reparations the Italians converted them to carbines. The did not change the fact that they were 8x50. The only ones. They also left nothing like an s or h. There is a wiki page on Italian 95s and also this link. Finally
http://www.hungariae.com/Mann95It.htm