Replacement stock on previously sporterized 1903a3 - several questions

First post – thanks for letting join this site.

My dad passed away last year and I inherited his sporterized 1903a3. He took a lot of mule and white tail deer (and maybe an elk or two) with it over the years. While he did a nice job sporterizing the original stock, it doesn’t come close to fitting me (6’3”, 240 lbs, long neck and arms). I’m planning to replace the stock with one from Boyd’s, then bed the action and float the barrel myself.

Current specs are:

• Remington-manufactured in 1942
• Serial number: 41065XX
• Original 2 groove barrel
• Dad replaced the trigger with a Timney (very nice break) and added a scope.

Questions:

• What is the purpose of the “dual stock reinforcing bolts” on the original rifle?
• Are these necessary in an aftermarket stock like Boyd’s?
• From a fit and utility standpoint, am I missing something that might affect restocking the rifle (I’m not very concerned about aesthetics)?
• Does anyone have experience with Boyd’s aftermarket stocks (good or bad)? Any other sources for completely inletted wood stocks for a 1903a3?

Side note - due to his health, dad didn't shoot this rifle for the past 15 years minimum. I took it out of the case, loaded it, and bench shot 1 1/4" groups at 100 yards without tweaking a thing. Even with the 2 groove barrel, this is a fine rifle.

Thanks for your advice – I look forward to providing feedback on the finished project to this board.

Is the barrel original length and sights? I see the scope mount, if original it shouldn't need headspaced. If that's what you mean by space... Pics would be nice too.

Jim - Yes, the barrel is original length and stamped RA 11-43 at the bore. Any original iron sights have been removed. Apologies, I should have said that I would float the barrel in the new stock. Not replacing the barrel and headspacing is not an issue. I'll see about pics when I can.

---------- Post added at 11:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 AM ----------

Steve - the original stock is at least 1 1/2" too short (LOP) (I'm a big guy) and I have to raise my face off the stock about an inch to see through the scope. I thought about spacers (I've used these successfully on shotguns) and a big recoil pad, but that doesn't address the scope issue. Also, I have a hard time with straight grips due to some early arthritis issues in my wrists. This is a rifle that should be shot and I want to be able to shoot it effectively and comfortably.

I have fitted 2 Boyd's stocks from CMP, and one Minelli from Brownells - so my 2 cents really only applies if you plan to put one of these military stocks on it. If you like it as is, and it's current configuration has sentimental value, than spacers are the way to go. I have even seen some people add blocks inside a slip-on gel recoil pad you can get an extra ~2in, plus the 1in gel this way with no alterations or refinishing.
On both of the Boyds, the fit was in the action was sloppy and required a lot of work, especially around the tang. The bottom of the tang area was cut very low, but the side walls very high and tight to where you could hear the wood creak when snugging the rear action screw. The flat on the receiver didn't even touch wood, and the front trigger screw bushing (attached to trigger guard) made contact with the recoil lug area to the point that the recoil lug didn't event touch wood. This required moving the whole action back quit a bit. The forearms were also very fat to where the lower band would not slide down at all unless the swivel screw was taken out...stock was way too fat to get the screw back in. Needless to say, it was a lot of work to get right.
The Minelli stock fit in the action nearly perfect - could call it drop in. All I needed to do to satisfy my OCD was add a touch more clearance behind the tang. The outside, however, was even fatter than the Boyds stocks...but I'd rather work on profiling the outside, and finishing it however I want, then screw around with poor inletting for hours and hours on end any day.
Just my 2 cents if your plans are to put it back to it's military configuration. I hunt with my 1903a4 Gibbs reproduction. I like carrying my 1903's in the woods way more than anything else.

Attachment 113086Attachment 113085Attachment 113087Attachment 113088Attachment 113089

Here are some quick pictures (definitely not a photographer by trade). Dad did a nice job refinishing the original stock, but it just doesn't fit. For him, it was a deer-killing machine. He bought it surplus after his Army discharge at the end of Korea.

LOP is 12 3/4" and I need a minimum of 14". You can see how a cheek weld leaves your eyes 1-2" below the scope sight line.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gentwocoog

that I would float the barrel in the new stock.

---

Also, if you do go with a full length stock, almost all 1903's like upward pressure in the last inch of the forend "barrel bed" area, and no other contact.

---------- Post added at 01:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:14 PM ----------

your pictures show the barrel has been cut down. there should be a slot cut parallel to the bore on top, in front of the date stamp, for the front sight key.

SS - Thanks for your insights re: Boyds and Minelli (I wasn't aware of them and will investigate). It wasn't obvious to me that the barrel had been cut down. Whoever did it did a good job as it isn't noticeable.

Due to the drop in comb (that's a shotgun term, but I think it translates to rifles. I primarily shoot shotguns and pistols) and wrist arthritis issues, I'm going to go with a pistol grip, combed, aftermarket stock.

Do you know if the stock reinforcing bolts (you can see these in my pictures) are needed for an aftermarket stock?

Finally, I've sold off all my father and father-in-law's centerfire rifles except for Dad's 1903a3 and my FIL's 1903a3 (also sporterized, but by a professional). I've shot a lot of deer rifles over the years including some pretty nice ones (FIL had a Weatherby Mark V), but nothing compares to the American Mauser. Those two won't be for sale and will be passed down. Glad you hunt with yours - they're meant to be used.

I don't think the original 1903 design had stock re-enforcing bolts - they were quickly added after initial testing. You'll find plenty of sporter stocks without them. Another option is to go with a old fashioned leather cheek pad to increase the comb height. Repro's of these are readily available.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gentwocoog

It wasn't obvious to me that the barrel had been cut down. Whoever did it did a good job as it isn't noticeable.

---

But see, you can't fit that barrel with iron sights now. The rear sight goes on the dovetail but if you restock with military wood the best you could do is a faux '03A4 type. Also you need a safety as there's a civilian alteration installed.

The primary interest of the guys on this forum is to restore these rifles to their original configuration. If I understand your desire correctly, you are interested in using your Dad's A3 as a hunting rifle. I am one of the "old timers" like your Dad, who bought the A3's to convert to hunting rifles. Friends and I did several of them in the 1960's. In those days, Fajen and Bishop made semi finished sporter stocks. Mostly we used those since they were reasonably priced and saved us a lot of work. Both of those outfits were bought up by Midway USA and, I believe they are now shut down. In answer to your original question; no, you don't need the cross bolts--you won't be using the rifle for a club or a bayonet handle any more.

I would suggest you look at Richards Microfit and see if they could fit your needs. I don't know if Boyds makes sporter stocks or not; you might check.

Your Dad has given you a good start; your Timney trigger already has the safety. He replaced the stamped trigger guard with a milled one from an 03. The bolt handle has been forged for scope clearance.

I recommend you read up on everything you can find on glass bedding and stock fitting and finishing. You have a fun project on your hands in addition to a labor of love.

Incidently, not that it matters but one of my books indicates your rifle was produced in December of 1943. It was probably rebarreled in one of the government rebuilding facilities.

I hope this helps.

First, thank you to everyone who has responded to my questions. Each of you has provided valuable information and I appreciate it. With Art’s response, I think that I have enough info to move forward.

Art – I just realized that there were 2 pages to this thread and am now seeing your response for the first time. My wife refers to me as a SOP (stupid old person) – in this instance, she’s correct.
At first I didn’t know that this site is focused on restorations, but nonetheless, appreciate the advice. You’re correct, I want to use dad’s 03a3 for hunting and target shooting. Just need to restock it to fit my oversized carcass.

Just looked up Richard’s Microfit. It appears that they can provide a 96% inletted stock for an 03a3. Boyd’s does make stocks for these, but their inletting gets lots of poor reviews. Good to have an alternative – I’ll look into Richard’s further.

The sites that I’ve seen show that the action was manufactured in 42, but then again, it’s the internet. You get what you pay for. The barrel was clearly manufactured in Nov 43. As long as it continues to shoot well, it doesn’t matter to me. I didn't know about the safety, trigger guard, and bold mods - thanks. Love the Timney trigger. He also had one on an Argentine Mauser - consistently crisp and light triggers.

No clubbing or bayoneting, just a whitetail or two. I do some woodworking, so this will be a fun project and, as you say, a labor of love. Dad lived to hunt and play golf. While I’m not a golfer, he taught me to shoot rifles and pistols pretty well.

Since this site is focused on military rifles, you might find this interesting. In early summer 1945, dad was 14 and his brother was 12. They lived in rural, desert NM (their town is now named Truth or Consequences) and slept on a screened porch to escape the heat. Early one morning, the “sunlight” woke them up. A minute later, it was dark again. Being boys of that age (we’ve all been that boy), they didn’t think much of it and went back to sleep. That “sunlight” was the first nuke being tested at Trinity Site (White Sands Test Range), about 70 miles and a mountain range to the NE.

Again, thanks for your information and advice. I’ll try to remember to post a picture once the project is complete, probably towards the end of 2021 (if the chicom virus doesn’t get us first).

Glen

That's a great story! You Dad and your uncle were involved in the Trinity test!

My story is less dramatic. I was seven and my brother was 12 that summer of '45 and in west Michigan. My father was a farmer and, among other things, he grew strawberries. Summer was berry picking. My Mother had a cousin, Joy, who would have been 15 or 16 then. A pretty, shy, blond girl; not at all conceited or worldly. She came out to stay at the farm to help with the strawberry harvest. There was a young soldier (I believe he was a relative of Joy's brother-in-law) who was very taken with Joy. He was on leave and came out to the farm just to be near Joy. Soldiers on leave were required to wear the uniform but, in the summer heat, he wore as little of it as he thought he could get away with. He helped with the farm work, picked berries, and did everything he could to make himself useful. What I remember especially is that he slept nights in the yard under a big maple tree. Of course, he was my hero, as were all servicemen when I was seven: They still are! I wish I could remember his name. I heard much later that he didn't make it through the war. Interesting, isn't it, when you compare the early 1940's, with the real threats and real dangers, to the "crisis" we have now.

You have your Father's A3 and you mentioned you also have your uncle's A3. In looking through some old American Rifleman magazines, I came across the purchase request form for "1903A3 Springfield Rifles" at $10 plus $4.50 packing and handling in the September, 1960 issue. In an issue a few months later, there was a note that 30,000 of the 53,000 requests had been processed. Among those 53,000 requests was mine and I think it's a safe bet that your Dad's and your uncles requests were in there, too.

Merry Christmas!

Gents - about a year ago, I posted my original questions on this thread and received some excellent feedback. At the time I didn't know that this site focuses on restorations, but you all graciously provided good information on restocking my dad's previously sporterized A3. I finished the project this week (except for bedding the stock which will have to wait until after deer season). Posting pictures of the final build after this note.

ssgross - I ended up going with a Boyds laminate stock. Their recent comments have been positive and I'm pleased with their product (as ugly as it is). Inletting was pretty accurate. I did have to whittle on it some to make room for the Timney trigger and milled 03 trigger guard. The barrel channel is amazingly precise.

ArtPahl - your insights about the 03 trigger guard saved me many hours of confusion and work. Still might inlet it a tad more, but getting enough clearance for the Timney was difficult, so it might just have to protrude 1/16". That's hard to take as a perfectionist. Also, I didn't return to this site / thread after my last post and just read your note about the soldier in the summer of '45. His death is especially tragic so late in the war. Mom had a cousin she was very close to who was killed by a kamikaze on the Bunker Hill and, at 96, she is still sad. Our kids just don't understand... Thanks for sharing that.

So with the build complete, took it to the range today, just hoping to get something on paper at 100 yards. Shot an initial group about 8 inches wide while feeling out the trigger break and futzing with the tension on the back trigger guard bolt (if I tighten it too much, it binds the trigger, but that's just more tinkering to deal with). After that, I switched to a new target and shot a 3 inch group with one flinch / flyer (the guy next to me fired just as I was firing - that's my story and I'm sticking to it). Not bad for an 80 year old rifle with a well used 2 groove barrel and a new, stiff stock. With a better operator, that group could have easily been < 1.5 inches. We won't talk about the third group as the old girl kicks like a rented mule and I started flinching.

[side note: My wife inherited her father's 03a3 that had been sporterized by a professional, probably in the 60s. Since mine was in the middle of being restocked, I used hers on the first day of deer season and took a nice little whitetail with one shot. These are just outstanding rifles.]

So to end this long note, thanks again to each of you for your hospitality and advise. It's been a fun project and my new grandson will now get to inherit his great grandfather's rifle someday.

Glen

Attachment 121473Attachment 121474Attachment 121475Attachment 121476

looks real nice. The polished bolt handle gives it some pizzaz too.
After shooting a couple dozen rounds in a newly fitted stock, re-tighten the action screws. As the metal settles into the wood in it's first time out, the fit will change slightly. I should think a laminate stock would settle less than walnut, but I've never done one.

My 1940's copy of Howe's "Modern Gunsmithing" says the 1903 sporter still benefits from upward pressure from the forend. If your barrel is free floated, you might play with some business cards, or a piece of cork to to make a shim out of. There is a pdf copy of Howe in a sticky somewhere here on milsurps.com.

Handsome rifle with that stock.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ssgross

My 1940's copy of Howe's "Modern Gunsmithing" says the 1903 sporter still benefits from upward pressure from the forend.

---

Hmmmm... that's contrary to everything I've ever heard about free floating, but I'm certainly no expert. Will give it a try next time out - thanks. And will find Howes on the site and see what he has to say.

---------- Post added at 09:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 PM ----------

Thank you Daan - it was a labor of love. My dad loved that rifle.

I've had the opportunity to visit RSA twice in the past 8 years and would do so again tomorrow given the chance. Incredible place. Wish I could afford a hunt there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gentwocoog

that's contrary to everything I've ever heard about free floating

---

Some 1903's are reported to have benefitted from free floating the barrel, but these are exceptions. "Baffling" muzzle vibrations at certain points of the barrel is very common across many types of military rifles. Lot's of literature, classic and contemporary, about how the 1903 was designed to fit in the wood for utmost accuracy, and upward pressure from the forend was the design. Howe writes about the design in detail, and even goes in to the 1903-specific type of barrel whip that was noticed during testing and mitigated by fitting with upward pressure of the forend. Hatcher's books, and Campbell's 1903 book also have info. The topic of proper fit at the muzzle wasn't new to the 1903. Hudson's "Modern Rifle Shooting", published in 1903, discusses the topic with regards to accurizing the Krag (great description for doing trigger work an the trapdoors in there too). Good news is, most of these older sources are in the public domain and you can find pdf's for free - many on this site.

Your stock was likely inletted to be free floating. So you've done your due diligence by trying it out after proper fitting of the receiver. Now you are free to experiment and tune to perfection. It can only get better!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gentwocoog

I've had the opportunity to visit RSA twice in the past 8 years and would do so again tomorrow given the chance. Incredible place. Wish I could afford a hunt there.

---

Still is an awesome place. Best country in the world to live in I still believe.

It might be a good time for that hunt, prices should be highly negotiable in this Covid time.

Looks great and I'm sure your father would absolutely approve, well done.

I fitted a NOS Keystone 'C' to my A4 build a few years back and it took a lot of work to get the rifle bedded properly, from the exact right action to trigger guard gap to the right level of upward force at the muzzle.

Quite an education and it took three visits for me to get it right.

First time 'looked' correct, but recoil was horrible and accuracy not great.

Second effort had it mostly sorted and third visit had it sorted...

Unlike Enfields I've bedded in the past, the 1903 really has noticeably unpleasant recoil characteristics, if the bedding isn't right and they shoot 'so' well when you get it right.

I hadn't shot my Springfield for a while, but while putting 150 rounds through it against distant steel targets in the Cambrian mountains with a few fellow UK Milsurpers last week, I fell in love all over again!