masking tape - removing it from walnut stock

I'm looking at buying a Swiss rifle on-line. Unfortunately, it has a piece of masking tape on the stock, maybe 3x2 inches. The rifle is from 1922. No telling how old the masking tape is. I can only imagine it's hard as a rock, and literally welded to the walnut.

I suppose worst think is I have to refinish the entire stock. But does anyone have advice on what I might try in removing it?

I'm thinking I'd try gentle use of a hair dryer to soften it up first. But guessing the glue will have worked it's way into the grain, and anything like Goof Off will remove the finish.

Thanks for any advice....

Masking tape gets dry and flakey and looses its adhesion when very old, in my experience. Perhaps the linseed oil is keeping it from drying out and falling off? A heat gun is probably best. Might be a good idea to cut out a cover-piece in heavy paper or thin card stock and cover the surrounding area. Steam would be another option.

I would just try some Hoppes cleaning solvent to hydrate it and soften it up overnight. Depending on what the stock was originally finished with, you could also try raw linseed oil.

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Originally Posted by Singer B

try some Hoppes cleaning solvent to hydrate it and soften it up overnight.

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That would be worth a try.

Mineral Spirits or turpentine will probably soften the tape and dissolve the adhesive.
Hand-Rubbing a 50/50 mixture of Linseed Oil & Turpentine should freshen the wood finish and give a uniform appearance.

acetone and a scrubby or steel wool will lift all dirt, grime and residue out of the top layer of wood grain, without harming the original color of the oxidized linseed oil or damaging the deeper original sanding. Simply wipe it down with linseed oil when you are done to restore the color and finish. I just did this on a Krag that used to hang on a wall at a VFW for decades...imagine decades of cigarette smoke from the vfw bar (it reaked of smoke as soon as I wiped it down the first time with mineral spirits), combined with decades of sweat and dirt from parades etc. I posted the results, with before and after pics, in the Krag forum.
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=71678&page=6

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../12/orig-1.jpg

I have not tried this but it's cheap enough. Maybe test it on an inconspicuous place or on another sacrificial stock.

Goo Gone hotline: 855-364-8135

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Originally Posted by ssgross

acetone and a scrubby or steel wool will lift all dirt, grime and residue out of the top layer of wood grain, without harming the original color of the oxidized linseed oil or damaging the deeper original sanding. Simply wipe it down with linseed oil when you are done to restore the color and finish. I just did this on a Krag that used to hang on a wall at a VFW for decades...imagine decades of cigarette smoke from the vfw bar (it reaked of smoke as soon as I wiped it down the first time with mineral spirits), combined with decades of sweat and dirt from parades etc. I posted the results, with before and after pics, in the Krag forum.
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=71678&page=6

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Like a good many others, I bit my tongue on the subject of your Krag, but since this is involving others I'll go on record here as saying "do not use acetone to to strip your stock of all finish and patina", as you did on that Krag. You might as well get the cold blue out and finish the job on that rifle, it's ruined as a collector piece. Sorry, but that's not just my opinion and that of many others; it's a fact with antiques of all kinds.

One or two likely contrarians might drop in here to say different for the sake of being so, but there's really no argument about it.

Use Vegetable oil or WD-40,
Soak the tape with a small rag. Then lay the soaked rag on the old tape and cover it with a piece of cellophane to keep it moist. This should pull the top off, repeat to get the glue residue off. When removing the glue residue a stiff toothbrush should remove it from the grain and pores.

Either of these won't pull your original finish, but you'll probably have some dis-coloration from the tape being on so long.
I've used this method on old antique dressers and document boxes multiple times with great results.

A Heat Gun can cause the Tape's adhesive to become tacky again... Depending on the grade of tape. Some were Low Tack- Others High Tack. If it Tacks up again it's possible you'll pull wood fiber. You don't need heat, you need to break down adhesion.

It'll work :thup:

Nearly 50 years of taping stuff !

Merry Christmas

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

it's ruined as a collector piece

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Many others share your opinion about removing the patina - and you certainly are correct about "most antiques". But people buy and collect antiques for many different reasons.
I spent quite a long while reading posts, likely some of yours, on the matter giving it due consideration. Two fortunate things considered 1) this krag, like all my rifles, is not a collector piece - very far from it. 2) Patinas can return, with time and use, and the way I did it will allow it to return. Certainly some may disagree as to the definition of "collector's piece". Perhaps that's what is so great about it, we each can create our own definition - analogously some would never consider regularly taking their "antique" rifles hunting, some think differently.
There are plenty of definitions of "patina" as well. Would you say that degreasing all the metal parts of old, inferior, lubricant and re-applying to better preserve the firearm is removing the patina - that patina has a different look and feel on the metal. Is sticky old cosmoline part of the patina? on wood or metal? On the wood, all these chemicals are known to attack and degrade the fibers - that soft mushy feeling on top of the wood could be considered patina as well. If the patina of the wood is it's color, character, and feel over time then I did no harm. It's all still there, which was the benefit I clearly stated here and elsewhere. If it includes all the oils, sweat, smoke residue, and other damaging chemicals accumulated with years of neglect, then yes, no apologies, I removed those.
To your other point...I don't think it needs to be reblued to be preserved for centuries to come. The barrel had already been refinished at some point - doubtful it was original considering where it came from. I may refinish the replacement magazine cutoff that is currently a shiny baby-blue. By the dictionary, one may call bluing a patina as well. Is a bowl of cheerios a soup? Is a hot dog a sandwich?
I very much appreciate your thoughts here and elsewhere. The OP now has many good options of varying degrees to consider - none of which include a dishwasher, bleach, or oven cleaner. I don't like goo-gone as it leaves a residue only removed with something else like mineral spirits or other. Likely spot treatment will always show something, as the tape embedded its own patina over time.

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Originally Posted by ssgross

as the tape embedded its own patina over time

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Agreed,
Wood may be darker where the tape was...... May be lighter. Strange how light and woods natural oils react over time. I had a old Sharps on the rack for 20 years pretty much untouched.
Noticed 1 day the wood on the back side was now lighter than the wood on the front. I would have expected the opposite.

Finished a lot of Maple and Cherry in my working days. Found out the hard way that you had to putty the nail holes about 2x darker than the finish color on the new wood. Give it a year and everything matches. But sure looked rough until then.

Merry Xmas!

All of this and yet... "Last On 12-17-2020 @ 08:16 PM"

So he hasn't even come back again to see.

and he never even showed a picture.
...for posterity I guess... :beerchug:

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

All of this and yet... "Last On 12-17-2020 @ 08:16 PM"

So he hasn't even come back again to see.

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I didn't notice that Jim or that this was his 1st post. Guessing he's the kinda guy not in a hurry. See he joined Feb 2020. He must really give things a lot of thought before he posts about them.
No one can say we didn't 'Try' to help.

:lol:

I could never stand seeing these threads get longer and longer and people getting upset with each other yet...the OP wasn't even there.

Like a school teacher writing a question on the board and going home.

well, for what it's worth - I'm certainly not upset...except that my kids and I pondered all afternoon whether a hotdog should be a sandwich or not. To answer the cheerios one, I made them look up gazpacho - now I'm stuck trying to make it for them.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Like a school teacher writing a question on the board and going home.

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You mean I'm not supposed to end all my lectures giving students an open question to think about till next time? Here I've been doing it all these years - the best is when its unsolvable problem. The internet has made it harder to come up with really fun ones anymore.
Supermil brought up an interesting point - is it possible to cleanup wood of all its deep grime etc. without "severely altering" (intentional grey definition) it, and better preserving its condition? There was a deep scratch and gouge showing bright wood when I got that rifle. Patina questions aside, it now looks like the scratch/gouge has been there for a hundred years. I'll continue the conversation over there with pictures in more varied lighting - for now I just thought of a documentary I saw once on the Mona Lisa and how it has been renewed/preserved - they did what to the patina? - yes they removed it without harming the underlying painting.

The discussion afterwards makes it worth while, even when the OP never replies. So much to learn, so few threads.

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Originally Posted by ssgross

You mean I'm not supposed to end all my lectures

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Obviously you deliberately misread this. Instead of teaching... I taught for years too.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

deliberately misread this

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I did. Just poking the bear...no offense intended. All smiles and pleasant conversation on this end.

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Originally Posted by Daan Kemp

The discussion afterwards makes it worth while, even when the OP never replies.

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Daan,
I agree with the discussion part, but would be nice to see which method was used and if the desired results achieved.

Like I stated above I didn't realize the OP hadn't been back to read replies. Also didn't catch that he didn't own the piece.
OP signed off right after posting.
And had 2 replies in less than 45 minutes.

Hats off to those who replied. Shows there is a good bunch gathered here.

Be Safe and Enjoy the Holidays,

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Originally Posted by whaler

But does anyone have advice on what I might try in removing it?

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The advice that I heard was that when wishing to remove an adhesive or an object stuck to another object with adhesive, one should always start with water first to see if that will soften/dissolve the adhesive before trying a solvent. In this case it is the tape with adhesive on the back which needs to be dissolved.

I used wd40

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

start with water first

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This is good advice in general...start with the least invasive methods first and progress...patiently. Keep in mind that something minimally invasive like this, applied too aggressively or in large quantity may end up being very invasive.

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Originally Posted by ssgross

This is good advice in general...start with the least invasive methods first and progress...patiently.

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The advice came from someone who was described as an antique restoration expert. Obviously, people's definition of "expert" differs.

ssgross, you really put it quite well here:
"My objective is to preserve all the dings and service life, but look and feel like a rifle in service, carefully maintained by a soldier or marine whose life depends on it, and not like an antique only brought out for show and tell."

Guys, there is no universal answer - it depends on the present-day purpose of the artefact in question. Museum-passive or range-active.

If it is a bullet hole in the jacket of the asassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand, in a museum, then I think we would have no difficulty in agreeing that the hole is a part of history, and sewing up the hole would be a mistake.
- The purpose of the jacket is to serve as a historical exhibit, not as a jacket to be worn.
....
If it is a rust on a gun that has been stored badly, and one which is to be used again, then the rust is not a "part of its history", just neglect.
- The purpose of the gun is as a tool, to be used.

- And in between, there are endless shades of gray. One example:

I have a Sharps 1863 New Model rifle. It is one of around 500 rifles where not only the unit, but also the name of the soldier who carried it, is known. And I can and do shoot it. Proper maintenance has therefore been carried out so that it continues to be functional. The external metal surfaces are almost black - natural oxidation over a century and a half, not red rust. Sometimes I feel inclined to remove this patina, but stop because that is a completely non-functional aspect of the rifle.

So my personal point of view is that it is (in order of importance)
1) vitally necessary to stop degenerative processes (rust, rot).
2) necessary - for functional and safety reasons - to conduct proper maintenance of the gun if you wish to use it again.
3) acceptable to remove later, non-original finishes such as modern varnishes, if they hide or obscure the original surface (search for "treacle rifle" to see what I mean).
4) unnecessary to refinish surfaces, if such refinishing is purely cosmetic. Clean - yes. refinish - no.

"whaler" joined this forum on February 23, 2020.

He/She made one post on December 17, 2020, regarding a piece of tape on a rifle, that he/she did not own and had never handled.

The OP was given numerous workable suggestions by people, who had solved similar problems through their own ingenuity.

No thanks or acknowledgement was given by the OP. The thread lives on!

IMHO - There is just something wrong with this whole scenario??? :madsmile:

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Originally Posted by butlersrangers

There is just something wrong with this whole scenario

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THAT'S what I was trying to say but was shouted down by all that seem to want to talk about what we've all discussed many times...

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

ssgross, you really put it quite well here:
"My objective is to preserve all the dings and service life, but look and feel like a rifle in service, carefully maintained by a soldier or marine whose life depends on it, and not like an antique only brought out for show and tell."

Guys, there is no universal answer - it depends on the present-day purpose of the artefact in question. Museum-passive or range-active.

If it is a bullet hole in the jacket of the asassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand, in a museum, then I think we would have no difficulty in agreeing that the hole is a part of history, and sewing up the hole would be a mistake.
- The purpose of the jacket is to serve as a historical exhibit, not as a jacket to be worn.
....
If it is a rust on a gun that has been stored badly, and one which is to be used again, then the rust is not a "part of its history", just neglect.
- The purpose of the gun is as a tool, to be used.

- And in between, there are endless shades of gray. One example:

I have a Sharps 1863 New Model rifle. It is one of around 500 rifles where not only the unit, but also the name of the soldier who carried it, is known. And I can and do shoot it. Proper maintenance has therefore been carried out so that it continues to be functional. The external metal surfaces are almost black - natural oxidation over a century and a half, not red rust. Sometimes I feel inclined to remove this patina, but stop because that is a completely non-functional aspect of the rifle.

So my personal point of view is that it is (in order of importance)
1) vitally necessary to stop degenerative processes (rust, rot).
2) necessary - for functional and safety reasons - to conduct proper maintenance of the gun if you wish to use it again.
3) acceptable to remove later, non-original finishes such as modern varnishes, if they hide or obscure the original surface (search for "treacle rifle" to see what I mean).
4) unnecessary to refinish surfaces, if such refinishing is purely cosmetic. Clean - yes. refinish - no.

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Very well said sir, I completely agree with you. Each piece has its story to tell, and since I shoot everything in my small collection, I maintenance them as needed. If a project gun comes to me as a "bubba" or sporterized gun, then I work with the owner to determine what type of piece they are looking for: a complete refurbishment to like new or a functional refurbishment to what it should look like today. Either way, since the financial value is already gone, it simply becomes a labor of love. If I would add one thing to your post, it would be the consideration of the monetary value of the piece and how that value would be impacted by various restoration techniques.

That 'TAPE' might be a week old.
Because the rifle is from 1922 doesn't mean squat.

I've learned from this post to read the OP closely and note the dates.

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Originally Posted by butlersrangers

"whaler" joined this forum on February 23, 2020.

He/She made one post on December 17, 2020, regarding a piece of tape on a rifle, that he/she did not own and had never handled.

The OP was given numerous workable suggestions by people, who had solved similar problems through their own ingenuity.

No thanks or acknowledgement was given by the OP. The thread lives on!

IMHO - There is just something wrong with this whole scenario??? :madsmile:

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The purpose of a "thread" in an "on-line forum" is supposed to be for the mutual benefit for everyone who participates in that thread, not just the O.P., in my opinion.

In this particular case the O.P. probably never purchased the rifle in question and, therefore, never came back here. Hopefully those who made the effort to contribute to this thread have learnt something from each other because that is the purpose of on-line forums.

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

The purpose of a "thread" in an "on-line forum" is supposed to be for the mutual benefit for everyone who participates in that thread, not just the O.P., in my opinion.

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Yes but we've discussed this very thing two dozen time I'll bet, and still it goes on... We just tell each other the same thing endlessly.

I figure anyone who really cares will search, find the 20 times it's been talked about, and read. New context always gives new perspective.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

We just tell each other the same thing endlessly.

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That's pretty normal everywhere and not limited to milsurps. For example, I used to have the same conversation a few times a year with my late grandmother who passed away this year at 92...It would always start with "Where are you working at now dear"...my response...then she'd always say..."But honey, don't you want to work for a living?", because anything less than manual labor just wasn't work in her mind, and she couldn't fathom the misery of not being "gainfully employed" on a farm. We would then always talk about farming when she was a kid and something new and interesting would come of it.

I guess my point is I just like talking to you all, especially now with lockdowns and turmoil, and it really doesn't matter how it starts or ends, or whether it's about tape for the 20th time or something new - it will be fun regardless.

A person, OP, asks a question to solve a supposed problem.

He is politely given a number of promising, but, different 'solutions'.

If the OP responds by saying "thanks", tells what he tried and how it worked, or even says: "he decided not to proceed", all is well and good. He held up his end of the Social Contract.

If he never responds, he is rude. Some of us feel ill used and 'irritated'.

Others will not see a testimonial, validating a really good approach.
Nothing is learned about what was successful.
(We may gain insights, wanted or unwanted, into the personalities and character, of ourselves and others).

There is a lot of verbiage.

It will continue to grow, because a lot of forum members will continue to answer the original question, not realizing that the OP is ... long gone ... had to fold his laundry ... or was just 'dicking' with us all along.

I'm done with the subject.

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Originally Posted by butlersrangers

A person, OP, asks a question to solve a supposed problem.

He is politely given a number of promising, but, different 'solutions'.

If the OP responds by saying "thanks", tells what he tried and how it worked, or even says: "he decided not to proceed", all is well and good. He held up his end of the Social Contract.

If he never responds, he is rude. Some of us feel ill used and 'irritated'.

Others will not see a testimonial, validating a really good approach.
Nothing is learned about what was successful.
(We may gain insights, wanted or unwanted, into the personalities and character, of ourselves and others).

There is a lot of verbiage.

It will continue to grow, because a lot of forum members will continue to answer the original question, not realizing that the OP is ... long gone ... had to fold his laundry ... or was just 'dicking' with us all along.

I'm done with the subject.

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As far as I am aware when one logs on to the Milserps Forum, the forum doesn't suddenly have remote control over all users brains and body functions, forcing the forum member to contribute to threads against the user's will.

If forum members don't approve, can't be bothered or don't wish to contribute to a certain thread, then the answer is simple, just ignore the thread.

There is one or two active threads on this forum that I really can't be "bothered with". I just ignore the thread/s; I am not constantly criticising people who do wish to contribute to the thread/s by making silly comments.

I'm exhausted .. :surrender:

Thread Closed ...