Hi,
I'm looking at purchasing this longbranch lee enfield and was curious as to what you guys think would be acceptable to pay for it? Seller is asking for 725 shipped. Attached are photos
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Thanks!
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Hi,
I'm looking at purchasing this longbranch lee enfield and was curious as to what you guys think would be acceptable to pay for it? Seller is asking for 725 shipped. Attached are photos
Imgur: The magic of the Internet
Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by zh75
It looks like a good one and the way prices are moving at the moment I'd suggest it is not expensive.
As I said in your other post - my knowledge is UK so not much help.
Thanks Alan, I appreciate the help! I know enfield prices have been trending upwards in general including here in the US so i figured 725 for a matching one wasn't out of the realm of possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield
Thanks!
Sounds like a reasonable price to me. Bear in mind the sling is wrong for the rifle and the sling swivel at the very front near the muzzle is not correct and should be removed.
I didn't know that but thank you! 2 things that are easy to correct....just for my sake, how do you know the sling isn't correct? I know the usual slings the brits used were tan, if im not wrong, as opposed to the green but other than that how do you know?Quote:
Originally Posted by 55recce
The sling is post -WWII US not British. Easily identified once you’ve been at this for a while. Nice Long Branch at a fair price.Quote:
Originally Posted by zh75
Being somewhat parochial in my outlook, given that I live not too far from the old arsenal lands where it was made, I'd grab it in a heartbeat. As is pointed out, the sling is incorrect as is the front sling swivel (no biggie!). On the big plus side, it's stocked in walnut not birch, which makes them more desirable hereabouts. The stock looks to be in excellent shape overall and if all the numbers match it would sell it up here for $1200 Cdn. in a heartbeat. If the butt stock is "L" marked (top near the butt plate), add another $50. If I had it, I'd buy the PH5C rear sight for it for actual range time and keep the original flip sight put by for originality.
Wow thanks for the insight! Good to know it’s a good one in the eyes of people who know more than me about these rifles! Rifle is all matching according to the pictures and what the seller is saying. Went ahead and claimed it so I’m excited for it to arrive!Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrence_n
It's near the top end, but if bolt is matching I would buy it. If bolt does not match it is too much. Can't tell from pics, but if I had to guess I would think the bolt is matching.
Picked up the Longbranch today- all I can say is wow, she’s a beauty. Everything matches with a 1 bolt head. Will post pics later if you guys want them.
Also, question about the cock on closing bolt since this is my first rifle using that system and first enfield. How much force should be realistically needed to finish the closing of the bolt? The bolt on this Longbranch is buttery smooth until the very last portion of the closing, I’m assuming that’s when the rifle is actually being cocked. Just wondering what would be considered abnormal for how much force is needed to finish the closing?
That is normal for LE rifles. Depends on what you mean by 'how much force' - you don't need to force it to close. Visit your local gun stores and handle/test the LE they have, to compare with your LB. It should be clear then. Or friends with LE.
Not force close as in feeling like it’s hurting the rifle, just a fair amount of resistance at the end of the bolt cycle. Again, the enfield is new to me so it could be and sounds normal based on what you’re saying and what I’ve read.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daan Kemp
Yep, normal. Put simply, the resistance starts when the sear catches the striker. When you open the bolt after cocking and without pressing the trigger, the bolt should move back smartly on its own under the tension of the striker spring.
Looks like a nice piece. I have owned a tremendous number of LB #4 rifles over the years and have yet to see one with the last 4 of the serial number stamped on top of the buttstock behind the receiver. So I am not sure what to make of that but it is a very nice mid war rifle. Congrats on a good find!!
Longbranch No4 Mk1 - Album on Imgur
Some quick pictures i grabbed today if anyone is interested[COLOR="black"]
---------- Post added at 11:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 AM ----------
Thank you, I love it! And thats interesting what youre saying about the serial number behind the receiver on the buttstock, I just assumed that was a normal thing for the Enfields in general, or at least the Longbranch models.Quote:
Originally Posted by boltaction
Please dont take this the wrong way but that blue tinge on the bolt just in front of the handle up top looks like heating marks what say the others, looks a tidy rig good for you.
Cocking on close you do not need that much force realy, make up some dummy rounds and practice using the stripper clips and the cocking you can shape and glue in a pencil rubber if you want to get used to the 2 stage trigger or buy some snap caps to get the feel of cock on closing and the trigger pull.
Thats what i was thinking about the blue tinge...is that a bad thing that its there do you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
And yeah as far as the cock on closing, I think its just somethiing I need to practice with and get use to.
I am not qualified enough to comment on that but life experience with 40 years in construction where one has a metal of a certain hardness and enough heat is applied to leave that type of bluing then it could alter the temper of the metal. I am just saying it appears thats what has happened others like Brian Dick, Browningautorifle, Lee Enfield and others are probably more qualified to answer the picture. For the minute I would hang 5 on firing it just to be sure.
Will hold off on firing, and can provide more pictures of the bolt if needed. Hopefully one of the guys you listed can give us better insightQuote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
Longbranch Bolt - Album on Imgur
More pictures of the bolt
Hmm, so what do you think the best course of action is in this case? Would it be even safe to fire then?Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Quote:
Originally Posted by boltaction
I got a buttstock with a 4 digit number in this place a while back and I wondered what it was. I'm thinking it from a Longbranch rifle now.
G'Day zh75,Quote:
Originally Posted by zh75
Interesting LB specimen. Looking good so far.
The bolt in question has been heated to around 300 degrees Celsius. The Yanks can work out thier own equivalent temps! ;)
Now for mild steel, or structural steel, 300 degrees isn't too much of a concern, as it's just getting in to the range of altering the steel's mechanical properties. I've spent the past 30 years as a civil/structural engineer, so I'm confident to discuss this topic.
I am unsure of the standard for the bolt steel on a No 4, but I can assure you that the locking lug faces are heat treated for hardness for a few 10 thou depth. Additional heat, as seems to be the case here may well alter the face hardness of the rear lug. In short that is: Bad. (I hope the techo terms aren't too confusing... I'm trying to keep the engineering stuff to a minimum.)
The first thing I'd want to know: Why TF is the rifle cocked in photos... :banghead: No that's my safety prejudice surfacing, I apologise (well, a bit...) I recognise that only Commonwealth countries have a desire to 'ease springs' at any chance. I digress...
The real questions from you to the seller is: Why is the rear lug discoloured? Why was the rear lug heated? By whom? When? How much use has the rifle had since the heating of the bolt? What was the gunsmithing outcome of the heating of the lug?
Don't take a face value question as acceptable. Consider, if you buy the rifle and put our face behind that bolt and it fails...
It's probably not a death knell for the rifle, but it's a bloody good reason to ask more questions. Your safety and eyesight is at stake.
Now, the rest of the rifle is pretty good, but that heated bolt is a concern.
Ask sensible, probing questions, by all means, return to the forum with them or even direct them as PMs to the people you consider appropriately senior and experienced to help. But do ask these questions of the seller. Don't take thier initial "oh, that was done by a gunsmith..." as gospel. It's safety first, second and always that counts. Doesn't matter how flash the rifle looks on your wall, it's whether you can safely and reliably use it that counts. Your safety, and that of people around you, is not negotiable.
That's my 2 bob's worth... ;)
I'd say there is some chance that is a cold blue attempt, sometimes funny yellow tints appear. But it is possible that some banzai bozo did indeed attempt to soften the lugs, fiddle with them and then harden them again.
But normally such industrious types would attempt to remove the evidence of their work with a bit of fine 80 grit paper. :rolleyes:
However, looking at your earlier photos, the bolt does indeed look original and therefore bozo should have had few reasons to mess with the lugs, in fact no reason at all, as they must have been lapped/stoned in at the factory. There is a slight possibility the bolt was replaced by an armourer who didn't do the job correctly, but very unlikely.
The two little divots in the bottom of the smaller recoil lug are from the factory hardness test I believe. The same was done near the front guard screw hole on the underside of the receiver.
The number on the butt wrist is obviously spurious, but the others look original to me, with the exception of the magazine, which was probably added in post-WWII service somewhere.
The bolt is either original or a service fitment; look at the "L" stamp. Compare with other Long Branch No4 bolts. Notice the original machining marks around the serial number?Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
I just pulled out one LB bolt with four of those hardness test divots in the same place. Tomorrow I'll pull some others out.
So you're wrong on two out of three. :clap:
You saw some photos of a bolt and you KNOW it was heated? No, you THINK it was heated. I think it might have been too, but we don't KNOW yet...
Very much appreciate all the input from everyone, I think regardless the bolt in question shouldn’t be trusted at the moment. It’s getting shipped down to Brian Dick today for him to take a look and fit a new bolt if that’s the solution that’s needed. I’m not about to risk my face shooting it with a bolt looking like that.
I am still wondering about the serial number stamped in the stock behind the receiver, is that for sure something that would’ve been added outside the factory?
Also had a question about some of the stamps, on the band opposite side of the serial number there’s stamping with “RTC” and what looks to be “S.E.M. Ga”. Does anyone have any idea what that would stand for?
The only time serials were added to the wrist of the butt was on the No4(T)s and that is not a "T" so some civilian has added it. And probably the number under the forend too, if the stamps are the same.
Don't recognize the other marks you refer to, but possibly importer marks. No doubt Brian will be able to tell you all about those.
Before you ship it off, how about some close up photos of the rear surfaces on both of the bolt recoil lugs, and preferably the recoil shoulders in the receiver too.
Already shipped unfortunately otherwise I would. And hopefully Brian will be able to tell me more about it.
And now starting to wonder if I got fleeced on this rifle
Typical Long Branch hardness test marks on small recoil lug of bolt - not usually this many though.
So happy ending all of this - Brian Dick got my rifle today and had the chance to give it a look over including the bolt and had this to say:
"Your LB No.4 arrived safely today. I gauged/inspected it and everything is well in specification. In fact, it appears to have been worked on in British service as it sports many British replacement parts, all of which are perfect and properly fitted. The serial number on the top of the wrist strikes me as ROF Maltby work but I'm not sure they refurbished many rifles post WWII. It could have been done in European workshops post war. Just a couple of wild guesses. It doesn't appear to have been used much after being reworked.
The LH locking lug on the barrel is fine. The rifle has been refinished during rebuild and I think the bluing was affected by the original hardening of the locking lugs. It doesn't look to me to be welded back on. To be honest, it's perfect as far as I'm concerned. All this rifle needs is for you to keep the screws tight, barrel clean, shoot and enjoy from what I can see."
So thankfully no welding, and will be looking forward to getting the rifle back and enjoying it.
Make that three out of three... :lol: :runaway:
Enjoy your original rifle zh75. Fast service and a definitive answer. ;)
Hardness tester marks on underside of LB receiver - two different sizes no less.
I need to add that I was wrong about it being reblued. The finish appears original after a closer look. The heat discoloration on the bolt body was a concern but I see nothing that tells me it's been worked on by anyone other than real Armourers. Guessing the bolt left the factory that way and yes, I've seen it before on a few Canadian blued bolts. It just wasn't as prevalent looking.
Rob, I've had several original ROF Maltby service rifles with the serial numbers stamped on the top of the wrist. I have a couple of 1941 and a 1942 in my collection that are so marked. I've had a very few marked post war Maltby FTR's. I think they were closed in 1946 if memory serves. This one isn't a full FTR as it sports original blue finish. Did ROF Maltby repair rifles post WW2 but not necessarily put them through a full blown FTR? Maybe someone else can elaborate. It could have been repaired at a European workshop too. I had Greek owned Long Branch rifles that certainly were. They were refinished with a deep dip blue finish, not Parkerizing and Suncorite paint. Either way, it just feels honest and I wouldn't change a thing. The stamped serials on this rifle are not done by a civilian but after it was restocked. It still has it's original LB buttstock but the forend is a British walnut replacement as is the front handguard. I didn't take the handguards off so not sure about the rear one. I took off his M1 Rifle front sling swivel and Chicom M1 sling. I'll send them back in a ziplock bag. I can't bring myself to put them back on!
---------- Post added at 02:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 PM ----------
I have to correct myself again. The forend is original Canadian walnut. It was roughly block sanded before being numbered and if you look real hard, the original Canadian batch markings are still visible. Just a good, honest service rifle that's been legitimately worked on.
Thank you Brian, forgot to include the correction you sent last night, my apologies! And thank you for taking off the swivel and sling, they were going to come off at some point so saved me a little work. Can't say enough good things about your level of service & info that you provided me on the rifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Dick
Interesting Brian; did those rifles with the SN added to the wrist have any indications of a common post-war service? How did that Greek refinish compare to Dulite blue?
The three ROF Maltby rifles all have it. I know they've been inspected and cleaned prior to reserve storage but they strike me as pretty much factory original. I also have a ROF Fazakerley, ('43 date), that has been serviced, got a coat of paint and the stock cleaned in service post war. The matching serial number is present on the top of the wrist too but it's been scraped and sanded during post war servicing.
The Greek bluing is kind of a flat but dark blue/black finish. I have some 1903 Springfields that were returned from Greece by the CMP and they sport the same dark blue/black finish. Dulite is a much lighter shade of blue or more of a blue-grey over a sand blasted surface like Savage No.4 bodies.