Martini Enfield

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Hello again!I've [hopefully] attached some pics. if someone can help me find out a little more about this rifle I'd be grateful. I just cannot make out the mark on the stock. In some light it seems to start with a V but in other lights it looks more like alike a T?
cheers
john

Try asking over on the britishmilitaria.yuku.com website for more answers

Looks like an 1874 Martini Metford 577/450 upgraded to 303 in 1899.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daan Kemp

Looks like an 1874 Martini Metford 577/450 upgraded to 303 in 1899.

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It has Enfield rifling...so surely can't be a Metford?

Originally made in 577/450 with a Metford rifled barrel, as that was the rifling that worked best with black powder and lead bullets. After the Empire changed to 303, many Martinis were rebarreled to 303, as the only real change was the extractor and barrel. Later change over to Enfield rifling too, after experience with the new magazine LeeMetfords showed the Metford rifling, cordite, and jacketed bullets weren't compatible.

You will see the breechblock isn't 303 size, made for a larger cartridge. These are nice shooting rifles in my restricted experience.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daan Kemp

Originally made in 577/450 with a Metford rifled barrel, as that was the rifling that worked best with black powder and lead bullets. After the Empire changed to 303, many Martinis were rebarreled to 303, as the only real change was the extractor and barrel. Later change over to Enfield rifling too, after experience with the new magazine LeeMetfords showed the Metford rifling, cordite, and jacketed bullets weren't compatible.

You will see the breechblock isn't 303 size, made for a larger cartridge. These are nice shooting rifles in my restricted experience.

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I see what you mean about the breech block. It actually groups reasonably well...just not where you aim it😁.
At some point I will slug the bore & see exactly where I am with it..
Cheers
John

I did a rough bore slug using a .38 soft lead ball...by bashing it into the muzzle end of the rifle. It mic'd at approx .311.
I also used a H&N 8mm bullet head to slug the throat...that came out at .345 dia.
The H&N bullet is softish lead 'washed' with a thin coat of copper..
Cheers
John

If the barrel slugs .311 you have a good one they work well with cast

The only time I tried cast bullets they went all over the place. The rifle shot much better with FMJs in 174gn...though not brilliantly.
So far the best I can get is with a 174gn bullet over 20gns of 2400..

Get hold of at least one of the Type 3130 Hornady bullets. These have a long cylindrical portion. (Ithink that Speer has a similar bullet)
Close the breech. Take a 1/4"brass or wooden rod about 1 yd long and insert it into the chamber until it touches the lands.
Make the point where the rod exits the muzzle.
Now open the breech, take on of the 3130s and push it into the breech until it hits the lands. This will also push the rod forwards out of the muzzle.
Make another mark where the rod exits the muzzle.
If the distance between the marks is longer than the length of a Martini-Henry case, then that rifle is probabl never going to shoot well, because in the free flight between leaving the case mouth and being engraved by the lands it will develop a skew. The bullet then has a corkscrew-like trajectory. This effect has been documented for revolvers (wher it occurs because of the free flight from the cylinder into the forcing cone) but I have not seen it documented for rifles.

In such a case, all you can do is use the 3130 set out as far as you dare.

1) Neck-sizing only. If you do not have a neck sizing die, then simply screw out the full-resizing die a bit (1/4 turn?)
- The unresized portion of the neck, where it meets the shoulder, helps to center the case in the chamber.
2) Do NOT crimp the bullet in any way. Instead, rather open up the mouth a teensy weensy bit, just enough that if you chamber such a case, you see a trace of a bright rubbing ring on the case mouth when you extract it. This also helps to center the case mouth (and thus the bullet) in the chamber.

The reasoning behing the above actions is thus:
A fully resized case has some play between the neck and the chamber wall. The chambered case will sit on the bottom of the chamber, and the play is all at the top. So the bullet is sitting below the centerline of the barrel.
On firing, the bullet will run along the bottom of the neck space until it is forced up by the transition/lead/forcing cone/ call it what you will.
So the bullet is inevitably engraved on the skew, leading to the corkscrew trajectory mentioned above. The above tips help to keep the bullet centered as long as possible on its way into the rifling.

A longer cylindrical portion on the bullet helps to keep it straight. If a rifle has a free flight between case mouth and transition cone, then boat-tail bullets will make it worse.

Don't forget, these rifles were designed long before boat-tails became fashionable. The bullets in those days were long and cylindrical by modern standards. I do not have a 303 M-H, but have owned (and shot) a Mosin-Nagant 91/30 sniper, Argentine Mauser, SMLE MKsI and V, Lee Enfield No.4, a friend's Finnish sniper, and they ALL performed better with the 3130s.

Try it. It won't turn the Martini into a bench-rest rifle, but it will perform better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

1) Neck-sizing only. If you do not have a neck sizing die, then simply screw out the full-resizing die a bit (1/4 turn?)
- The unresized portion of the neck, where it meets the shoulder, helps to center the case in the chamber.
2) Do NOT crimp the bullet in any way. Instead, rather open up the mouth a teensy weensy bit, just enough that if you chamber such a case, you see a trace of a bright rubbing ring on the case mouth when you extract it. This also helps to center the case mouth (and thus the bullet) in the chamber.

The reasoning behing the above actions is thus:
A fully resized case has some play between the neck and the chamber wall. The chambered case will sit on the bottom of the chamber, and the play is all at the top. So the bullet is sitting below the centerline of the barrel.
On firing, the bullet will run along the bottom of the neck space until it is forced up by the transition/lead/forcing cone/ call it what you will.
So the bullet is inevitably engraved on the skew, leading to the corkscrew trajectory mentioned above. The above tips help to keep the bullet centered as long as possible on its way into the rifling.

A longer cylindrical portion on the bullet helps to keep it straight. If a rifle has a free flight between case mouth and transition cone, then boat-tail bullets will make it worse.

Don't forget, these rifles were designed long before boat-tails became fashionable. The bullets in those days were long and cylindrical by modern standards. I do not have a 303 M-H, but have owned (and shot) a Mosin-Nagant 91/30 sniper, Argentine Mauser, SMLE MKsI and V, Lee Enfield No.4, a friend's Finnish sniper, and they ALL performed better with the 3130s.

Try it. It won't turn the Martini into a bench-rest rifle, but it will perform better.

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Thanks for this I will certainly give it a shot..