New member - New owner of a Lee-Enfield

Good Afternoon,
I recently purchased my first 'real' Lee-Enfield, even though I am pretty sure that it had been monkeyed with a little bit. (I purchased one a few years ago that had been redone by Golden State - I could not leave that beautiful piece of wood in the LGS!)

This one is a 1943 Long Branch No4 MkI*.
Pretty common from what I have been able to learn so far; but the price was decent, and I did not have a real Lee-Enfield yet.
I am convinced that the wood has been refinished, and the metal scrubbed a bit with something along the lines of Scotch-Brite. Most of the finish is all but gone, but all of the stamps that I can find do not seem to have that "worn" look. Bore is bright and strong with 2 grooves.

In an effort of trying to learn what is "correct" for that rifle, I have read more forum threads on multiple websites than I previously believed would have existed. And I have not scratched the surface of the information that is out there. I have so much to learn, I am feeling a bit overwhelmed.

At this point, I figured that I would ask a question in the attempt to make my research a bit more efficient.

Is there a resource already in existence that would help me learn:

1) About the No4 Mk I rifles in general
2) the specifics of what components and finish were 'correct' for my rifle.

With the adage "Better to be though a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt" in mind, I am trying to learn at least the rudimentary facts of this rifle before I start asking any specific questions. At this point, I think I would wear the patience of a monk thin with all of my questions.

Thank you so very much for any guidance you can offer!

Hello, & welcome to the forum. There are people on here that specialise in Long Branch production, so I'll limit my comments, other than to say that I think your rifle, leaving the factory in 1943 would almost certainly have had all major metal parts blued when new. Later on parkerising came in, but not until rather later (IIRC).

The 'Bible' on Lee Enfields is 'The Lee Enfield Story' by Ian D Skennerton. It started life many years ago as 'The British Service Lee' but was subsequently revised & expanded becoming The LES, & then undergoing a further expansion for its third & current iteration, though still retaining the same name. It really is the standard work on all things Lee Enfield, not just the No4, though that rifle features prominently. If you just want something dealing with the No4 there are books such as Strattons which give much useful information on production years, serial number ranges & variations seen in component parts, etc. There are other books too, but that is an initial suggestion. I daresay others will chip in with books that they have found useful.

Plus of course, this forum is an incredibly useful source of info..........you just have to ask. We all started somewhere so nobody will ever tell you your question is foolish.

Roger is correct. Bluing was standard until later 1950 production when Parkerizing became the norm. Many wartime Long Branch rifles were Parkerized during Canadian FTR programs in the 1960's and later.

Get the last one of Ian Skennertons the one on the bottom left Ian is the recognised most knowlegable person on the Lee Enfields.
Stratton books are handy for a quick reference guide if your at a gun show lot smaller to carry around.

The E.B Reynolds book is another good source and if you want to dig further into the bits and bobs with markings buy "The Broard Arrow" By Ian Vol I and the MkII version.
The Mk II Blue covers is a further expansion on Vol 1 and probably a bit cheaper than the first both my copies are signed by Ian and both numbered 211 of 300 copies.

Badger I finally sorted my computer out horrah I am actually learning a bit on comps :thup:

This forum has an immense body of LE knowledge. Whenever looking for specifics use the search function top right -searchmilsrups.com- you will find lots of answers quickly. There are usually multiple threads on the same topic but covering different areas of that same topic. So you have many different opinions of that very same question.

We love profuse photos, of your LE of course.

Golden state produced good firearms.

MANY Thanks for the replies!
I am now in the hunt for the books by Skennerton that you recommended.

So far I have found a of couple of small items that I need to 'fix' at some point.

• a stamped front sight protector
• a replacement cocking piece.

One thing that I have not been able to nail down...
On my cocking piece, there is a stamp that I have not been able to find reference to. It is certainly not the LB stamp, but it does not look like the blocky Savage 'S' either. Does anyone have any ideas?
(Here goes my first attempt at posting a pic on here...)


https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....72&cid=1&stc=1


Thanks again for all of the advice!

Please don't be offended but why do you feel like you need to replace the cocking piece and front sight guard? If your bolt assembly is set up properly and functions correctly, for God's sake, leave it alone. When you start changing things around and are clueless to start with, you can only put it out of specification. Then you'll wonder why it doesn't work right. Both of those parts are Savage manufacture. They probably are replacements on a 1943 LB but if it was a later 1944 or 1945 LB, they could also be correct because Savage sent all the remaining spares to LB after their contract was completed in late 1944. If the stamped Savage front sight guard bothers you, go ahead and replace it with a LB marked one if it makes you feel better but if you start tearing your bolt assembly apart, my guess is you're asking for trouble.

I would concur with Brian........the foresight protector isn't a major issue, but assuming your trigger pull is currently ok I would not advise changing the cocking piece as it will probably subtly alter the whole dynamics of the system. The trigger, trigger guard, trigger guard collar, sear, & cocking piece are all intimately connected & carefully fitted to get the right first & second pressures. Just changing any part of this to get the 'right' manufacturer's mark on a component may lead to regrets. But......it's your rifle!

Interesting! Not offended whatsoever. I am admittedly the novice here and am anxious to learn as much as I can.
Looking at the cocking piece and the bolt, I would not have expected it to alter the trigger pull or how the action functions. When I found the incorrectly stamped cocking piece, I thought that it was significant transgression against the rifle, and had the impression that I should try to return the rifle to as close to original condition as I could. If the cocking piece had already been swapped out, how would I determine if it is in spec or not? I am working on being able to check the headspace and will be verifying that the bolt will not close up on a .074" gauge.
The bolt head is a #2 and measures .633".
Besides verifying the headspace and that the firing pin does not protrude when it is being closed; is there anything else that I should be concerned about and should check before firing it?

As far as the front sight protector goes, it is flat out missing. The front sight is there and is even stamped correctly, but the protector is just not there at all. I felt that replacing it was something that I should be doing first and foremost.

I just picked up the rifle about 8 days ago, and have not had the opportunity to shoot it yet, so I cannot vouch for its accuracy. A few rounds were cycled through it just to be sure that fed correctly.

Brian,
I went and took a few pictures of some of the stamps on the rifle. Are these enough to confirm anything about the rifle?

The first is just the main stamp on the side of the receiver.

56L2717 serial number - Is this correct for the stamped 1943 year? Did they keep precise enough records to come close to a month of manufacture?
A12 - No idea what this is - Was the rifle repaired at Fazakerley? When?

I took the rear hand guard off to get some pics of the barrel. Three of them.
The barrel does look like it has a LB stamp. The other stamps I do not know what they signify.

It looks like a nice, original rifle to me. I don’t think it’s a Fazakerley FTR from what I see. It’s seen service and has seen an Armourer’s workshop a time or two I’m sure. That’s why the cocking piece was changed. Military Armourers that worked on them weren’t worried about parts manufacture, just function to specification. Read the articles on this site written by Peter Laidler. They will teach you about the different assemblies of the rifle and what to look for. I have Infantry Training Pam’s, (booklets), on the No.4 and Skennerton’s bible if in need. Give me a PM or call and I’ll fix you up.

For goodness sakes if you are going to start pulling the weapon down look up the threads on how to do it many fore stocks have been split by well meaning amatures doing the wrong thing. Heed the words of Brian Dick as he has probably repaired more lee's than hot breakfasts we have had. In the real world at forward base workshops the armourers (The real ones that is) were not concerned of rifling(pun) around in a tray of spare parts to ensure the weapon was matched. The sole function was to repair the malady to bring the weapon back to spec so it could be re-issued to go out and do the business on the 2 way rifle range.

The rifle seems to had a good linishing for some reason is this a normal thing BD or Roger!

It looks like a nice honest rifle that has had the misfortune to be rubbed down with fine emery cloth or maybe even a wire mop. Not clear why, unless a previous owner entertained ideas of refinishing it but then for some reason never got round to it.....

The barrel is also LB manufacture & I've no doubt the 43 is the year of manufacture, so it's likely the barrel is the original to the body (receiver).

The Dulite blue that was used on Savage and Long Branch No.4's as well as many other military weapons at the time in North American production wasn't that durable to start with. That's why it was replaced by Parkerizing in most instances by war's end. The Canadian production was small post war and bluing was the standard until the 93L serial range in the 1950's when they switched. They started producing rifles in quantity again in 1949 in preparation for the Korean conflict that was heating up. The Ethiopian imports flooding the market now are perfect examples of original finish wear regardless of countries of manufacture. The metal on most is quite honest I have to admit even though the barrels are terribly neglected. Most are worn even worse than the OP's rifle.

How about a few photos of the whole shootin' match?

I wonder, is this one of the Ethiopian rifles?

Hey guys, Just got in for the night. It has been a busy day here. Visited a couple of LGS this morning, then sanding and putting (hopefully) the last coat of mud on the purple drywall in the bathroom, and then transplanting a sprout off from my Cameo Quince. Some other odds and ends around the house, and I just gained the opportunity to check out the forum again.

You have granted me several replies to go through!

You guys have provided some great information for me, and I cannot thank you enough for that!

Give me a little while longer, and I will try to post more photos tonight that show a bit more than the small tidbits I have shared so far.
Thanks again!

Roger, I have no idea what so ever where this rifle may have been sent off to. How would one find out where a rifle was used?

Hi Garjin. I just asked about the provenance of your rifle in case it was from a batch that I gather is on sale in the US at the moment, sold by ?? RTI ?? or some such outfit (it's pretty academic to me as I'm in England anyway). However, I gather these rifles are generally pretty rough & Brian is being kept busy restoring them for customers who have bought one. If yours is one of these then I guess the wear on the finish could just be from the constant handling of weather beaten Ethiopian fingers (!), but if you bought it as a private sale, & it was in private ownership for a while, then I would have been more inclined to wonder if the finish had been intentionally removed with a view to refinishing by a previous owner........

Just my convoluted thought processes......:)

Roger,
This was not imported by or for sale by RTI.
This does unfortunately have an import stamp, but is it CAI.

My understanding is that the rifle had been in the collection of the guy's father for a long time.

I wave been very reluctant to share full pics of the rifle, because I felt there was so much that was not 'right' with it. That and it just does not compare to many of most excellent examples that many of you possess.
For whatever it is worth... here it is.

adding pic of import stamp

Never be afraid of posting a pic of your rifle we are all enthusiasts and collectors here and probably one of the very rare sites that will not pull the p*ss out of someones item, as to us the owners of the rifles or custodians for the next generation we all admire them for what they are a very unique design that has withstood the passage of time and wars to become an icon.
Alongside rifles like the Garand, M1 carbine, Colt 1911, BAR, K98 to name but a few, so carry on and post all you want but I do suggest studying the copious amount of threads on how to's on the rifle in regards to giving the woods some RLO and general light maintenance as has been stated with the trigger group etc its not just one component that has to fit to make it work safely, enjoy them but understand this you have been warned;

Owning a 303 Lee Enfield has in most cases caused the owners to contract the rare disease "Enfielditis" which will cause the subsequent collection of more 303's and as such there is no known cure................:lol::lol::rofl::lol::lol: :madsmile:

Seeing these other photo's it may just be as Brian hinted that the finish has worn over time, although I'm still not absolutely sure one way or the other. Regardless, you have a very nice Long Branch No4 stocked up in what is likely to be its original birch woodwork. If you want to drop me a pm I can probably find you a Long Branch made foresight protector & screw so you can complete it......

It’s actually worse than some of them cosmetically. Nothing a little tlc won’t fix. If the barrel gauges in spec, send it here for Parkerizing as there appears to be no finish left. It’ll be lovely.