Need help identifying marks

I acquired a Number 4 Mk 1* that is a mixmaster. The receiver is a 1943 Long Branch and has a matching bolt. There is a Savage S in a box on the metal piece of the stock fore-end and several British acceptance broad arrows on various pieces. I need help identifying the following marks please! Thanks in advance… she may be a mixmaster but produced several 4-round groups with holes touching at 50 yards.

- SM 43 on the foresight protector
- SM on the metal part of the front handguard
- VNS on the top of the swivel band
- E 31 below the serial number
- Crown over J6 on the butt stock

Balance that foresight a bit more in the base and those shots will fall tenX... Nice.

The mixed parts are normal for an old service rifle.

"SM 43 on the foresight protector"=Singer Manufacturing Co.

"SM on the metal part of the front handguard"=Singer Manufacturing Co

"VNS on the top of the swivel band"=Viners Ltd.
(These are all sub-contractors for rifle components)

"E 31 below the serial number"=Dont know, but these type of lettering appears often on LB rifles. Perhaps some one versed in LB manufacturing can elaborate(?)

"Crown over J6 on the butt stock"=inspectors/acceptance stamp

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Balance that foresight a bit more in the base and those shots will fall tenX... Nice.

The mixed parts are normal for an old service rifle.

---

The rifle was converted to a faux (T) by a previous owner, so if I can get the repro Number 32 scope zeroed, the 10x's will be produced by that device!

Attachment 114279

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smle addict

"SM 43 on the foresight protector"=Singer Manufacturing Co.

"SM on the metal part of the front handguard"=Singer Manufacturing Co

"VNS on the top of the swivel band"=Viners Ltd.
(These are all sub-contractors for rifle components)

"E 31 below the serial number"=Dont know, but these type of lettering appears often on LB rifles. Perhaps some one versed in LB manufacturing cna elaborate(?)

"Crown over J6 on the butt stock"=inspectors/acceptance stamp

---

Thanks! Follow-up questions:
- For which manufacturers did Singer and Viners do sub-contractor work?
- Can the crown over J6 inspector's stamp be linked to a particular manufacturer?

contracts were for the Government not a manufacturer. Any manufacturer can have used parts from the pool when needed or they may not have made that part at all or only briefly.. LEs are correct as a complete working war time rifle.
Yes inspectors marks can usually be placed at one site but they could also be working at another as required.
The Broad Arrow Mk2 by Ian Skennerton is well worth the investment.

Thanks to all. My assumption is that components subcontracted to manufacturers in England would not have made their way to Long Branch or Savage during the war. Since this rifle has not been marked as having been through an arsenal (FTR), I also assume the parts were assembled once its military life was over. If I am off-base on either of those assumptions, please let me know.

Now please help me identify the manufacturer, if possible, of the barrel. Photos below. This is one of the most interesting parts of collecting in my opinion!

Attachment 114284Attachment 114285Attachment 114286Attachment 114287

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rjcassara

Thanks to all. My assumption is that components subcontracted to manufacturers in England would not have made their way to Long Branch or Savage during the war. Since this rifle has not been marked as having been through an arsenal (FTR), I also assume the parts were assembled once its military life was over. If I am off-base on either of those assumptions, please let me know.

Now please help me identify the manufacturer, if possible, of the barrel. Photos below. This is one of the most interesting parts of collecting in my opinion!

Attachment 114284Attachment 114285Attachment 114286Attachment 114287

---

M47 was the 'secret' wartime code for BSA

Each manufacturer was give a code number prefixed by N for North, M for Midlands and S for South.
BSA was in Birmingham (in the midlands) so became M (supplier number) 47

BSA had several factories and each had a suffix.
examples :

M47A - B.S.A. Guns, Small Heath, Birmingham UK
M47B - B.S.A. Guns, Redditch, Hereford & Worcester
M47C - B.S.A. Guns, Shirley, Birmingham UK

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rjcassara

Thanks to all. My assumption is that components subcontracted to manufacturers in England would not have made their way to Long Branch or Savage during the war. Since this rifle has not been marked as having been through an arsenal (FTR),

---

Armourers were based at Base level and also 'in the field' and would be repairing broken or bent parts every day and would have boxes full of components from any supplier from all over the world, If (for example) a sight was bent it would be removed and the 'next one in the box' would be used, they were all made to the same drawings so irrespective of source it would 'fit'
The armourers would not be worried about trying to match manufacturers of components with manufacturer of the rifle - their priority was to get the rifle back out and in use. If it was a 'Savage' bolt head, or a 'Long Branch' sight it still 'did the job'.

Unlike some Garand collectors, Enfield collectors accept that a Lee Enfield can be 'all correct' with an assortment of differing dated components from different manufacturers.
This is how it was in service.

Armourers would not mark any rifle as having been repaired , it would only be marked by the manufacturer when it went back for FTR (Factory Thorough Repair) of a major component (normally the body - a barrel would be done at 'armourer level').

Remember that we were at war and factories being bombed every night - an instruction was issued that every rifle was needed and the likes of BSA were told to build (and supply) as many rifles as possible, even using commercial parts (in lieu of military parts) and recycle old parts recovered from previous models or scrapped rifles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rjcassara

The rifle was converted to a faux (T) by a previous owner

---

You didn't mention that...but if you place a WTB here in the forum provided you will probably find what you seek.

The barrel is dated 1956 (at least I think that's a date) and it is interesting that they would still use the M47 designation that long after the war... although not unlikely that Cold War concerns kept them in use. Would 1956 be the date of manufacture or the date of installation? It is a 5-groove barrel with a forged knox, and my 3rd Edition, Revised book by Charles Stratton identifies that as a First Variation. Would they still be making those in 1956? The viewpoint of the base or field armourer is interesting and understandable. I guess I'm fascinated by the relative ease of interchangeability of parts, with this rifle fitted out by manufacturers in England, Canada, and the USA.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rjcassara

The barrel is dated 1956

---

Yes, they were re-barreling them then with new barrels. We had new Long Branch barrels coming out of the system here in the mid '70s and available for installation. The armorers books still showed almost full inventory. So, 1956 dates don't surprise. Those rifles were in general service still. You have to understand how many were made...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Those rifles were in general service still. You have to understand how many were made...

---

The Enfield family (No1 thru No4) are supposed to have reached around 16,000,000, but of course no one knows how many Pakistan and India manufactured - they were still in production well into the late 1980's (or later ?)

Some say second only in production numbers to the AK47