Ammo Shortage ? Primers ? See Video's

Please NO Politics :bow:

After seeing multiple GB auctions with 2 bricks of WRA small rifle primers selling for over $525+ not counting Shipping/Hazmat fees I started looking over Youtube videos to see what people were saying, when I ran across this:

A Message From Federal, CCI, Speer And Remington President Jason Vanderbrink On Ammo Demand

I Just watched this video from Dec 2020. Best to use CC= Closed caption so you catch it all.
In part it says:

"There are 7 Million New shooters since March (2020) times 2 boxes of ammunition which is a conservative estimate is 700 Million new rounds of Ammunition our 3 factories have to help produce that is impossible to do in 9 months......."

He goes on about having to train many new hires, getting raw materials in and dealing with the Covid situation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIgvoJKovIg

Below Newer Updated video from Jan 21-2021 with 'Some' explanation of why reloading components aren't available because they are being used for current production. So this is why there are no 'Extras to sell'

JMO, But if some of those primers became available to the reloading market they might alleviate some of the pressure on the ammo market. Surely some are trying to buy complete ammo because they can't get ahold of the re-load components they need.

Anyone recall Reports of Price Gouging $ Fines/Arrests during the toilet paper shortage ?
How and Who do we reach out to about Ammo Price Gouging ?
A Walmart employee we know told us they had a few pallets of Ammo in back but weren't allowed to stock the shelves, said Corporate Orders ? :dunno:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5zNNk130V0

We are in dire straights here as well shortages all around as ADI has to honour its conractural powder obligations to the US so powder for Australian shooters is drying up and its the same with projies/primers/cases may be 12 - 18 months or more before we even see an improvement.

This is my third or fourth famine of this sort in recent memory.

Watched both videos this morning. CC worked fine on the first one, but shows in Italian for the second. Something makes me want to blame Ovidio! :slap: Anyone else have this problem? I can't figure out how to see the CC in English. :help: - Bob

Explosion in our local propellant manufacturing facility in 2019 if I recall the date correctly. Repairs not completed yet. Now we have to rely on imported products that cost more and will be more difficult to import if the places we import from are experiencing supply difficulties :(

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Originally Posted by USGI

Watched both videos this morning. CC worked fine on the first one, but shows in Italian for the second. Something makes me want to blame Ovidio! Anyone else have this problem? I can't figure out how to see the CC in English. - Bob

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Had to be Ovidio :mad:
I see he watched it on the 24th at 11:36am.
I changed the setting back to American.
Try it now

ETA: Still not right...... I can't figure it out. Is what it is I guess.

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Originally Posted by MSW2

Explosion in our local propellant manufacturing facility in 2019 if I recall the date correctly. Repairs not completed yet. Now we have to rely on imported products that cost more and will be more difficult to import if the places we import from are experiencing supply difficulties

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MSW2,
I'm sure Covid isn't helping either.
Where was the plant located ?

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Originally Posted by painter777

Anyone recall Reports of Price Gouging $ Fines/Arrests during the toilet paper shortage ?
How and Who do we reach out to about Ammo Price Gouging ?

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Before reaching out, I would suggest some careful homework on the definition of price gouging. I won't try to be another internet expert, but may try some common sense.
Everyone wants to cry foul and price gouging when they can't get what they want except at an auction site from the "evil hoarders". It certainly sucks when auctions are the ONLY place something exists anymore, but it's not price gouging. On the other hand, selling bottled water at $20 a bottle in New Orleans right after a hurricane, when it costs 50 cents everywhere else in the country...that is price gouging.
I have heard of small businesses that can't get supply enough to stay open liquidating inventory on gunbroker at the outrageous profits to avoid going under just a bit longer. How is that price gouging? Tell me where you can still find primers on the shelf at the usual $35 a brick, so I can open a claim against the guy on gunbroker for gouging that price. My local diner tripled the price of my bacon&eggs&shortstack combo since business is slow for this season and they don't want to fire anyone. Can you tell me how to open a price gouging claim against them?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous

"...C'mon Man..."

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I hate being the negative person on this. I know it sucks for everyone right now. I thank God every day that I still have a job in the midst of all this. I have been tipping my waitress at 100%, and gave my government stimulus checks to my church's food pantry...and I have bought primers on gunbroker and I'm grateful they were there and that I can still go shooting whenever I want.
Maybe before filing a price gouging claim against a gunbroker seller - If you have ammo take a friend shooting who doesn't. If you don't have ammo, be a better friend so your friend will take you shooting. I have no real friends here in this swamp where I live - I'll take you shooting painter!:wave:

Am I allowed to post here?
I posted earlier about how Remington's situation plays into the shortage.

I took my own medicine and did some homework myself. In this case I weirdly found wikipedia to be the best summation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_gouging
Sounds like if there is a worldwide constraint on the supply of primers (e.g. NO primers being supplied for sale by themselves from any manufacturer), and demand is through the roof in at least 1 country, than the going auction price is the only fair/reasonable offer for sale in existance.
The economics of the ammo crisis are very different from the toilet paper crisis. I'm sure that will be my next rant - I'll just say we we were a day or so away from all out "family cloth" https://www.buzzfeed.com/terripous/w...-you-use-it-an, and were rescued by a surprise UPS shipment of charmin from my brother-in-law who lived in a mostly unaffected area of the country.

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Originally Posted by Matt_X

Am I allowed to post here?

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Of course you are...

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Originally Posted by MSW2

Explosion in our local propellant manufacturing facility in 2019 if I recall the date correctly.

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Don't think I read about that one, that can't have been good at all.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Of course you are...[COLOR="black"]

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I ask because I posted and got a message that it needed to be reviewed. Then poof, what Iwrote is gone. I spent some time to be sure of what I posted and included links to the sources.
There was nothing even remotely political in it. Strictly business and manufacturing about the companies that make primers (there's only four in the US) and what happened to one - Remington - this year.

I'll just list a few of the references since I dont feel like rewriting

One overview of the primer situation 2020 covers a number of reasons including this:
"The Remington bankruptcy has had a large impact on the shortage of ammo and primers. With Remington in a state of financial insolvency for the past two years, suppliers were demanding payment upon delivery for products. Remington simply did not have the financial capabilities to have an abundance of raw materials on hand and had to shutter some of their production capacity."
quoted from Why Is There a Primer Supply Shortage? | Powder Valley

Results of the Remingon bankruptcy sale included Vista Outdoors purchase of the ammo manufacturing..
American Rifleman | The Keefe Report: An Update on Remington

November 2020 news story about restarting the Arkansas plant.
Arkansas Online: Remington buyer set to return

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Originally Posted by Matt_X

Results of the Remingon bankruptcy sale included Vista Outdoors

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That explains it. I thought I heard "federal, cci, Speer, and Remington" in the OP videos. The latter sounded weird and confused me. Guess I need to stop skipping over the Keefe Report in my magazines as my assumption that he writes mostly propaganda may be a bit off.

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Originally Posted by Matt_X

I ask because I posted and got a message that it needed to be reviewed. Then poof, what I wrote is gone.

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Curious, can't imagine why either...

The wife used to get on me about buying bulk instead of a few boxes. Now she's hunting down anywhere there might be anything and understands when I have a box of something that goes with nothing in the library. Just saw on Gunbroker a 1K box of 5.56 going for $1250 no reserve, and it was bid up to that, not started there. I'd be tempted to sell, except I don't know anywhere that isn't limiting purchases when something arrives or is able to get anything excepts in dribs and drabs. I've seen the ammo guys at the militaria show and gun shows suddenly increase prices on their ancient boxes these past year. It's so bad by me that even the oddball stuff is gone. Last bulk, I saw was four or five 1k boxes of 7.62x39 for stupid money. I don't have a delivery system for that but the price was a 'no' anyway. Gone are the days of the $80 spam can.

And Remington Ammunition; the first vid he's a bit testy. I can understand that but hold it together man. It doesn't help your case to be snippy. Sure looks like a lot of ammo lying around him. Speculators? The supply isn't getting to us as far as I can see. All I see are auctions and stupid prices being paid. Anyone else remember the desert being on fire because they were dumping gas out there during the 'gas shortages?' It seems that someone likes the high prices right now. Best we can all do is just stop buying it and let the market correct. I heard on a different discussion speculation that it may be as late as Sept before things get back to 'normal' whatever that will mean then. Pretty sure Remington/Speer/Federal/CCI could drum up some investment cash for expansion. I know it's not a switch and then you are going, but the machine designs already exist. Is it a raw material issue? Dude in the vid is talking about they are at max capacity so expansion is the next step. Well, then take it my friend. It's called capitalism.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Curious, can't imagine why either...

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May have had something to do with having a very low number of posts at the time? - Bob

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Originally Posted by Ignatious

the first vid he's a bit testy. I can understand that but hold it together man. It doesn't help your case to be snippy. Sure looks like a lot of ammo lying around him. Speculators?

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I'll bite. I watched the second video first, and then the first. My reaction was why on earth would he be so negative about everyone's frustration? It was that "snippiness" that sent me searching for reasonable arguments from his critics - and there were several reasonable ones centered on the last shortage and known supply pressures then.
Here is a superficial consensus summary of what I found - sans the obvious extreme conspiracy peddlers. In that last shortage, we saw an election scare which coincided with both huge DoD orders fueled by the height of 2 wars and a seperate government order from Homeland security for hundreds of billions of rounds.
The online critics he rants about claim the last shortage in comparison only lasted 4-6 months, even with the hundreds of billions of rounds of government supply pressure. His video cites 7million new gun owners as the supply pressure causing the current shortage to be so severe. Even if they all were hoarders, that pressure doesn't come close the billions of rounds of prior government pressure (so claim his critics). This leads to plenty of conspiracy theories out there about secret government ammo buying, or manufacturer coercion to prevent scared people from buying ammo. That seems to sum up the climate of his internet beefs.

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Originally Posted by ssgross

Originally Posted by painter777
Anyone recall Reports of Price Gouging $ Fines/Arrests during the toilet paper shortage ?
How and Who do we reach out to about Ammo Price Gouging ?

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Originally Posted by ssgross

Before reaching out

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I'll be the 1st to agree that the average citizen may not consider Ammo and reloading supplies Vital when compared to milk and bread.
I look at auctions as: List for what ever you want for it. No one is forcing me to purchase.
I do consider it gouging when Commercial Outlets put a $200 (10x) higher price tag over the original price tag of $20.00. Then again I have the option of not buying because I'm plenty stocked. But what about the family of 4 that needs a box of shells to feel safe in their home ? As for private sales, I do have a hard time understanding why fellow shooters would do this to other fellow shooters. Business is business... Greed is greed.

In a different scenario, but as far as reaching out, a number of us did reach out, Quickly which resulted in the reversal of a DOD policy that didn't get the chance to get off the ground.
There was a time back in roughly 2008-2009 that Commercial reloading companies who purchased once fired brass from the US governments DOD--actually purchased from Government Liquidators, llc.--the corporation that sells surplus materials for the U.S. government. These Reloading companies, one of which was Georgia Arms were notified that they could no longer get once fired military brass unless they wanted shredded brass. The US had planned to shred all this brass and bundle it at tax payers cost and sell it to China at a greatly reduced price per pound than the Reloading companies were already paying. Of course the shredded brass was obviously useless to the reloading companies.
Some may remember me posting about this. At the time I called my Congressman Mike Rogers who happens to be a friend and past client to see what was up.
He had his office Email me which basically said there had been such a whirlwind that the new administrations 'Plan' was scrapped. At one time Mike was the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, but I don't recall if it was at this time. I still have a scanned copy of a letter he passed to me from a NRA link that was sent by Sens. Max Baucus and Jon Tester to the head of the DLA: Defense Logistics Agency the procurement arm of the Pentagon.

https://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/DLA.MilitaryBrass.pdf

This happened so long ago it's hard to find current articles. Here's a link to a old one from the Shootist, that I see some errors in but in general describes the situation pretty closely.. though inflated. But you can read the actual letters sent to Georgia Arms:

The Shootist: DOD Ends Sale of Expended Military Brass to Remanufacturers

And while speaking of Commercial Gouging this link seems the Texas Attorney General and Governor feel they have a case. Part of the link reads:

"The Texas AG's office has identified ammunition as a necessity and, as a result, is arguing that those price hikes were against the Texas Business and Commerce Code. The code forbids businesses from "taking advantage of a disaster" by selling "fuel, food, medicine, lodging, building materials, construction tools or another necessity at an exorbitant or excessive price."

Texas AG accuses Cheaper Than Dirt of price gouging during pandemic

Lastly don't hit me with the New Orleans Hurricane example. I left a skeleton crew here and even cancelled a number of jobs to take 24 of my crewmen, 2 motor homes, 2 super crews, 2 vans, 1 travel trailer and 3 job trailers packed with drywall and tools with a semi delivery with more paint/drywall from my Michigan supplier arriving 2 weeks after we got there and spent nearly 7 weeks donating our labor and supplies. Was thanked by some, threatened by local workers, had a pick up and attached job trailer stolen and received a $10,000 fine by the State for not being licensed to perform work in that state. Think about that.... being fined for donated labor and material ? All costs came out of my pocket. I don't ask my crews to work for free. Never got that warm fuzzy feeling for trying to do the right thing. I received my 'Special Attention' from the IRS because I showed no earned income vs my costs which took nearly 2-1/2 years of Audits while paying Tax Accountants to sift thru that mess. Sound sour? It's because I am. IMO if you want to live in a Hurricane Sub Sea level area be prepared to get flooded out. No more handouts from me unless it's going to Wounded Warriors or St Judes. Or the 2-3 jobs I do a year for a needy family in my own hometown.

Finished......... :bitch: !

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Originally Posted by painter777

I do consider it gouging when Commercial Outlets put a $200 (10x) higher price tag over the original price tag of $20.00

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Whenever I've seen ammo on the shelves, I haven't noticed such an outrageous price hike. I happened to be in my local Cabela's the other morning right when they were offloading a truck...which had ammo. Limit 5 boxes only imposed on 9mm and 223. They only had 30 or so boxes of 9mm on that truck. Everyone was polite, formed a line, and waited for the lady to put it out on the shelf, and then courteously only took one box so everyone in line could have some. It was $14.99 a box. No one was rushing the 100 boxes of cheap 22lr that was put out. I scored a half dozen bricks of 100 so my kids can plink again without denting my supply of eley. It was $7.99 a brick.
You're right about cheaper than dirt..$100 for 1 box of 50 rounds 9mm I just checked. It's cheaper on gunbroker right now, and supply seems plentiful there so I don't think the price gouging claim will hold water on them. I'm not claiming that some businesses aren't raising their prices, or being greedy, I'm just arguing that it likely doesn't meet the legal definition of price gouging. But that won't stop the Texas AG from venting everyone's frustration, and miring them in costly litigation over it. I'll bet a box of ammo that the AG doesn't win.
I'm not trying to get anyone riled up here. I'm just pointing out that that this kind of thing is not price gouging.
I can certainly see why you are sour on New Orleans. I'll still take you shooting when your supply runs out, even though I seem to have solicited a grumpy face!:beerchug:

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Originally Posted by painter777

MSW2,
I'm sure Covid isn't helping either.
Where was the plant located ?

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Somerset West - near Capetown. And in 2018. Yes, covid is being brought in as an excuse for the slow rebuilding progress.

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Originally Posted by USGI

a very low number of posts

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Probably that.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Of course you are...

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Don't think I read about that one, that can't have been good at all.

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Eight people killed. Finding was human error. https://www.iol.co.za/amp/capeargus/news/human-error-part-of-the-cause-behind-denel-explosion-finds-report-35782478
Re-working propellant to meet specs. And some static electricity thrown into the mix.

My first post in this forum was in this thread. No issues here.

Glad that I've been around long enough to know some of the back channels for supply of necessities. Modernly, people get freaked when the Blue Rhino is out of tanks. I don't use that over priced distributor unless my tank is almost out of date. :D I still refill at the place with the scale. It's cheaper too.

And as far as hoarding, I don't consider it hoarding when it's simply planning ahead. This is like the anti's 'why do you need a gun? What are you afraid of?' I'm prepared for a hurricane, doesn't mean I'm afraid of them. Does it mean I'm hoarding? A well stocked pantry is simply a good plan. I certainly don't want to be out among the panicked sheep as they buy out all the ingredients for French toast because the weather man said the 's' word, or especially when a hurricane is bearing down on my town. I maintain Gerry cans of fuel that get rotated, and buy extra of whatever when I see it at a good price. I buy some stuff just for bartering should it come to that. I have not filled the guest room with TP like some people might think when they get an inkling you have stock. When that shortage started, I overheard several people saying 'the preppers are buying everything up, that's why there's a shortage.' I counteracted with 'the preppers already have theirs, it's in the name. It's the panickers that are causing the shortage.' I saw one guy at the grocery store with an entire cart full of meat. Completely wiped out that cooler. OK, if it floats your boat. I left because the lines were ridiculous. Again, the pantry remains at serviceable levels. Grew up in the woods. We didn't go to the grocery store just because we needed some butter. There had to be a list.

I spend a lot of time 'cultivating' people to be independent. They don't realize that's what I am doing. Just planting seeds to get the thought processes rolling and let them see things differently than what they have been taught. Sometimes it just takes a nudge to get someone on a different track. Like talking about hurricane preparedness. Or having some dry goods that can last you a week or two, and some water too. I'm not a prepper despite what it sounds like in my ramblings. We used to call this 'living.'

I will have to venture out tomorrow to see if any of the big boys are restocked with anything. Makes for a nice drive through the country. Nice to hear there's some reasonable prices out there.

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Originally Posted by Ignatious

And as far as hoarding, I don't consider it hoarding when it's simply planning ahead. This is like the anti's 'why do you need a gun?

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before all this, many of us would buy in small amounts whenever we were at the store. I knew I would always use it, and it's nice to never need special trips out - just like it's nice to always have a second gallon of milk in the fridge (or 3 if you have kids like me). I would also do 1-2 big...biiiiiig Grafs orders a year (in line with bonus schedule) proportional to how much I shoot. I've shot less during covid, and was banned from shooting for several months.
I'm sure many of you bought reasonably like this pre covid, and now like me your normally rotating supply has turned in to a hoard. I figure I have 2.5 years of unworried recreation shooting left. I'm going to start rationing next month to stretch that to 4 years.
If anything, this is the opposite of hoarding, because I refuse to buy at these prices (sans the small rifle primers. I only had 1 brick left and planned to compete high power this summer, covid willing) - I'm not placing any burden on the current market's limited supply, and I placed no excessive demand on the past market's supply either. The have-not grasshoppers will always despise the have ants and blame us for their lack of prudence.

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Originally Posted by Ignatious

I have not filled the guest room with TP like some people might think when they get an inkling you have stock.

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I ALWAYS had an extra 18 pack of TP in the attic. Where I grew up mom went to the big store only once a month and if we ran out...we were out. So she always had a bit extra just in case we all got colon-flu at the same time. That small amount of non-hoarding prudence literally saved my behind from the family cloth, by just a day or two.

:madsmile:

It just seems like yesterday that we went through the same thing. Then everyone was blaming DHS for ordering 40Trillion rounds of whatever. Now I think it is just 6 or 7 million new gun owners showing up. I think that maybe the manufacturers are playing it close to the vest because of the election situation and now that the results are in they are playing it even closer.
It is my understanding that there are no more lead smelters in the US as lead was moved into a danger scale on the level of plutonium. I am not all that sorry for the folks who are out of supplies. The lesson should only happen once to stick and if you ignored the lesson well.......There was plenty of opportunity to stock up on primers, powder and ammunition.

There used to be serious surplus ammunition hoarders. I remember reading about the 1st Cav capturing the regimental cache of an NVA unit west of Plei Me in 1965. It was 68,000 rounds of small arms ammunition. There were guys with a platoon worth of M1 rifles that had more than that in their garage. Probably not many more like that today.

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Originally Posted by DaveHH

The lesson should only happen once to stick ...There was plenty of opportunity to stock up on primers, powder and ammunition.

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That would be correct Dave. I learned and have my share here, we did have lots of warning signs from the past.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

This is my third or fourth famine of this sort in recent memory.

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exactly,
since Khaneduh started to become the 3rd world backwater ("no domestic production") we are today, this component shortage occurs every few years - and since US polyticks became commy alternating presidents it has happened with every (2 year!) US election cycle.

I still have a sleeve of LRM that I got in c.1998 when there were no LR primers available for love nor money... (that taught me)

The good news is that since most IMR/Hodgden powders are manufactured in Khaneduh, there is not a (local) shortage of most of the rifle powders I need... and during my current "clean up" I've found several pounds of WW2 surplus IMR4831...

Also there are (or have been anyway as we lost another one in Dec) a number of custom bullet makers locally - so I had 2 guys manufacture Mk7 "type" flatbase .311-.312 bullets for me -

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Originally Posted by ssgross

...snip... I've shot less during covid, and was banned from shooting for several months.
I'm sure many of you bought reasonably like this pre covid, and now like me your normally rotating supply has turned in to a hoard. I figure I have 2.5 years of unworried recreation shooting left. I'm going to start rationing next month to stretch that to 4 years.
If anything, this is the opposite of hoarding, because I refuse to buy at these prices (sans the small rifle primers. I only had 1 brick left and planned to compete high power this summer, covid willing) - I'm not placing any burden on the current market's limited supply, and I placed no excessive demand on the past market's supply either. The have-not grasshoppers will always despise the have ants and blame us for their lack of prudence.[COLOR="black"]
...snip....

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too funny, I was talking to a friend who is cleaning up the basement - I believe he said that "..so far I've found 2,500 virgin .222 rem brass...) on top of the 1,500 we found when I was there...

I popped in to cabela's while I was waiting on my wife...scored two boxes of Hornady 308 150 FMJ/BT bullets! Curiously, the glass case has been always fully stocked with Kimber pistols all through the pandemic. Everything else flies off the shelf.
It was a normal day...sometimes the shelves are bare of 30cal bullets, other days there are a few boxes of several types from several manufacturers.
Powder was the same way until 3 months ago. Now there is nothing, anywhere. I find it hard to believe. If primers really are the bottleneck, as extreme as they say it is, I would expect surpluses in the other components. If powder manufacturers have ramped up production like everyone else, but aren't selling to even a big boy like Graffs...then where is all the powder going? it's not going into ammo because there aren't enough primers! Unless everything is equally short.
Black powder supply sure isn't stressed. I may build a flintlock from a kit this year.

Years ago I got out of black powder and into machine guns . I had a can of 3F or 4F left over and loaded up some .45 230 grain ball and ran it through one of my Thompsons . Worked fine .
Chris

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Originally Posted by emmagee1917

Worked fine

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Let's see, if it had a Cutts you'd have a grey wall in front of you when firing and there MUST have been a nice flash?

well, I just checked gunbroker out of curiosity and smokeless, imr4895,4064,varget, etc, all seem to be going $100+ per pound. ughhh. I did my job building stock over years before all this - enough to last several years, but like many similar folks I'm now stressing over how long I can still shoot and at what level of rationing. I'm pessimistic that this is going to last at least 3 years or so.
grafs has plenty of musket caps and black powder in stock.
Here is the statements from Hodgdon. I just read too that Hodgdon acquired all of Western powders smokeless brands (e.g. accurate) back in Oct. 2020.
https://hodgdon.com/powder-shortage-statement/
If 80% of their business is still reloaders, and Hodgdon owns just about all the US brands, who is the main suppliers for the ammo factories? The US government?

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Originally Posted by ssgross

all seem to be going $100+ per pound

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Twice what it is here...

I have , like , 15,000 small pistol primers I don't need and a need for small rifle primers and CFE223 powder . Myself and others thought about opening a barter thread in other forums to help each other out .
Turns out Hazmat is not just a fee we pay as a service . WE , the shipper , must complete a course and be licensed then use those forms to register ourselves with the shipping company so they will pick the packages up from us . Failure to do this is a $250K fine per offence . If you order from someone on line and it comes in without a Hazmat sticker , you now know that that person isn't licensed . You are not required to report him , but using him again could lead you into trouble and fines greater than 85K . Is it worth it ?

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Originally Posted by emmagee1917

Hazmat is not just a fee we pay as a service

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Interesting point, we don't have to do that. I can ship primers using an agency that has dangerous good cert...like Loomis or Canpar for instance. I don't remember if I have to disclose the presence of flammables or explosive content... Price is reasonable and shipping is much faster than mail.

If you are required to slap a Hazmat sticker on it , they'll have to know .
I am not aware of such a service here in the US , i.e. , a private company with outlets who's Hazmat approved to receive primers and powder , pack them , then hand them off to a shipper . I don't think there is , but I don't know everything , I just sometimes think I do . :cheers:

Looks like things are easing? Grafs actually has some rifle and pistol powder in stock...and only Alliant and Vhitavouri, but it's a step in the right direction. Local cabelas has had plenty 223 on the shelf for a while now. I'm hoping rifle powders will be the first to recover...been too long since I've seen everybody's favorites, IMR{4895,4064} or Varget on the shelves anywhere.

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Originally Posted by ssgross

Looks like things are easing?

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Yup!.. I was finally able to get Hodgdon 4350 as well as Shooters SW4350. Seem to stick around a while as well. Prior it would be gone as soon as the email alert showed up.