1947 No 5 Mk 1 resurrection attempt (parts needed)

This No 5 followed me home recently The least butchered of the two I was offered.
No real need for a heart transplant as all the serial numbered parts save the magazine match. Just a little cosmetic surgery. I thought the barrel had been cut as the crown looks boogered.
I don't think she was fired much as it is quite clean with as nice a set of timber as I have seen.
The previous owner installed Williams sights but most of the the bubba holes should be covered by the upper handguard and flash hider. The missing handguard should be easily replaced with a modified #4. I have a repro flash hider I polished most of the casting marks out of which will do if I cant find an original. I see some rear 800m sights on e-bay etc.. which I fear may be reproductions.
Any advice as to were to obtain an original flash hider and or 800m rear sight would be appreciated.

Ooh, I've been looking for real flash hiders for 3 No5s, without luck. I settled for repros from Numrich after looking for ages. I've even considered welding missing sight protectors and bayonet lugs back on.
The sight should be easy to find, they seem to be more common on Ebay than No4 ladder sights for some reason. I suppose look for stamps on the Ebay versions to indicate repro or not.
If anyone has a small stash of these parts, I'm interested too.
Cheers,
Burton

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

I thought the barrel had been cut as the crown looks boogered.

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I think the muzzle is OK, just messed with. Wouldn't matter so much as the FH covers it all. You may as well go ahead with the fitting of the repro FH as even one you buy as original may be spurious. Sights are available...on open market.

I think I used up all my good luck when I found this one for another rifle. It was sitting on a table at a gun show. I almost fainted. Notice properly marked and no pin holes. What are the odds? I think the repros will look a lot better with the casting marks polished out. We shall see.

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

no pin holes.

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From what I understand they were fitted, drilled and pinned in one rush. A new original to me would be void of holes. Yours is even marked to Shirley. You'd need to jig it up so it would stay vertical and aligned while it was drilled. They used taper pins too... Don't know how the new repros will be, I've heard bad things.

Libertytreecollectors has some of the parts you need, but boy prices have risen in the last 15 years>
see https://www.libertytreecollectors.co...idCategory=128

On flee bay there is currently a JC aftermarket hand guard from Canada. Only one.

If the replacement flash-hider is a good fit on the barrel, making it stay put for drilling / reaming the pin holes is straightforward.

Get yourself a small bottle of Loctite 290 (Super Wick-in) It does what it says on the label. It is runny like water. Once the mating surfaced have been thoroughly degreased, (I use Carby cleaner and finish with Acetone or lacquer thinners), get everything lined up and assembled exactly as required.

Apply several drops of 290 to the junction between the barrel and the flash-hider and CAREFULLY place it somewhere to set for the next 24 hours. It actually takes less time than that to set fully, but, why rush it?

If you are cutting NEW holes in the barrel, do NOT use an ordinary twist drill bit to get started. The ideal tool is an end mill of suitably small size, applied to the larger end of the proposed pin hole. Do not even think about doing this job by hand. A rigid machine and a firmly fixed vise are minimum requirements. Once you have the "flat:" successfully machined, change that cutter out for a drill bit a little smaller than the "exit hole on the other side. As for tapered pins, there are Imperial and Metric sizes. Decide what you need and ensure yo have a tapered reamer that matches .

WITHOUT changing the setup of the machine and vise, ream out the hole, initially a little smaller than indicated by a test run with a tapered pin. Pins are usually much longer than required. Once finally fixed, lop the excess (those dinky Dremel cutting wheels are good), and clean up. Gently drive in a pin and then do the other hole. Tiny tapered pins do not need to be bashed in with a sledgehammer, nor do you want to distort the barrel.

In many non-cosmetic, not highly stressed applications, tapered pins can be replaced by nested roll pins, but that's another story.

Pin size/taper can be determined by taking a set of number drills and using them on both sides to determine the difference in diameters. A machinist can then cut the taper on a lathe.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I've heard bad things.

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All true.

I’m actually surprised no one has started making flash hiders with all the Cnc machines

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Originally Posted by pisco

I’m actually surprised no one has started making flash hiders

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Interesting that you'd mention that. I bought a scrapper that had a good F/H with exactly that intent and sent it to a man owning a full machine facility to find out feasibility. He looked at it and found even if we made dozens to sell as widely as we could, they would cost hundreds each to manufacture. It would have cost enough that no one would have wanted them. And he owned the machines...and was a gun guy too.

That's a universal problem when trying to get these old parts & accessories remade. They were made by very talented men & women, so can be made again, but at a price, & that price is often so high as to make the idea non-viable. I hit exactly the same barrier when trying to get someone to make, say, Aldis Purdey mounts at an affordable price. I have mentioned on here before that what is needed is a retired Rolls Royce (or equivalent) toolmaker with an interest in model engineering so that he has all the kit in his garage or garden shed, & a wife with a love of expensive foreign holidays, or designer handbags, or some such, so that he is keen to earn a little extra money.........that was precisely the relationship I was fortunate enough to have with the late Graham Smith......an eccentric of the old school, but a genius with a lathe, milling machine, shaper, pantograph..........you name a machine & he could make it purr......

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

That's a universal problem when trying to get these old parts & accessories remade.

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Too, I actually suggested it on here to glean some interest and with the various laws at the borders and import problems...would almost make it a case or either selling Canadian only or smuggling under a spurious name to gain entry. Neither would make it worth doing.

I do not know if this would help anyone. CAD file for the No 5 flash hider.
No. 5 Jungle Carbine Enfield Flash Hider CAD File | KommandoPost.com | KPS Militaria Collection
Could the FH not be produced with 3D printing?

The repro is not completely useless. A little added QC would make them at least an acceptable band-aid.

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

Could the FH not be produced with 3D printing?

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Not sure? When I looked into it, the machine shop owner actually suggested casting in two parts and welding together. Even the drawings don't make it cheaper. It's the actual time to set up, do them and then they would have cost a couple hundred each from the shop. That was if I made quantity...and of course even though he was a gun guy, he wasn't really interested in helping me out.

Numrich must get the repros from India/China which as bad as I hate to say it is probably
the only practical route to cost effective production. As few No 5s as were produced minus
the ones that are no longer with us the economics get worse every day.

My take on the parts issue is when the cost over takes reality forget it. Restoration with non genuine parts could be called Bubba in reverse or humping. I repaired a 1937 Lithgow to operational status as an armourer/FTR would have using the same parts they would have used. Non genuine parts did not exist.

I don't think it's going to be viable proposition to repop the flash hiders until reproduction No5 barrels become available. And since we have yet to see even No1 and Long Lee barrels appear on the market - good luck with that. Volley dial assemblies, a 15 or 20 round magazine that works, new bolt heads, those are things I could see being able to bring a profit.

No1 and No4 barrels are being made and have been for some time.

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Originally Posted by WillSarchet

I don't think it's going to be viable proposition to repop the flash hiders

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I think this is the correct thought. India has it by making a cast item that can be made do. I looked into CNC and it was as expensive as buying a lesser condition #5 complete.

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Originally Posted by Bindi2

No1 and No4 barrels are being made and have been for some time.

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Would you mind pointing me to the No1 barrels? I've seen the No4 offerings from Criterion or Lothar-Walther, but nothing other than surplus barrels for the No1.

Lookup TBone shipwrighting on this Forum

Ah, thanks. I remember that thread now. He got them from Lothar-Walther but they don't offer them in the states. Which reminds me they didn't get back to me after the initial response when I inquired about them, so I'm going to pester them again. Shouldn't be any reason they can't sell them here.

3D printing them directly using metal powder might get the look, but what happens upon the firing of a few cartridges?

Plan "B" is to 3D print a model from the appropriate "thread' and the use that as the pattern, suitably shelled and sprued, to INVESTMENT cast the almost finished item from actual steel. Don't forget to allow "scaling" of the pattern to compensate for shrinkage of the metal as it cools.

Ruger has been doing this since the early 1950's. They were the absolute pioneers in investment casting of Titanium and are still the world leaders in that field.

The basic technique has been around for over two thousand years.

Check your local business directory.

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

This No 5 followed me home recently The least butchered of the two I was offered.
No real need for a heart transplant as all the serial numbered parts save the magazine match. Just a little cosmetic surgery. I thought the barrel had been cut as the crown looks boogered.
I don't think she was fired much as it is quite clean with as nice a set of timber as I have seen.
The previous owner installed Williams sights but most of the the bubba holes should be covered by the upper handguard and flash hider. The missing handguard should be easily replaced with a modified #4. I have a repro flash hider I polished most of the casting marks out of which will do if I cant find an original. I see some rear 800m sights on e-bay etc.. which I fear may be reproductions.
Any advice as to were to obtain an original flash hider and or 800m rear sight would be appreciated.

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I have a flash hider that I'm sure is original but someone ground the bayo lug off it and buggered the holes for pinning a touch. Someone that was handy could work with it though. The body cone and ears are good. It would be easy enough to get it in the mail if you want to try and work with it.

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

Numrich must get the repros from India/China which as bad as I hate to say it is probably
the only practical route to cost effective production.

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India/Pakistan is as you say, the best bet (rather than China) as Enfields are a known quantity in the Indian sub-continent for the past 75 years+, with a current cottage industry that can facilitate this. 20 years ago, when people in the UK started to look at getting WW2 era British Battledress remade (and P37 webbing) it was India/Pakistan that they turned to as there was still factories setup with WW2 machinery installed by the British during WW2 to make stuff locally for the military. As well as cheap labour costs, they still had the knowledge and production facilities to remake a lot of the stuff (especially the correct wool serge for the BD) and drill material for KD......and the metal parts needed as well.

The 'chaps in the huts' up the Khyber Pass seem pretty good at making No5's out of scrap and railroad ties, maybe have a word with them ?
A bit of guidance on what is expected and they'll be $1 a piece.

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Originally Posted by Doco overboard

I have a flash hider that I'm sure is original but someone ground the bayo lug off it and buggered the holes for pinning a touch. Someone that was handy could work with it though. The body cone and ears are good. It would be easy enough to get it in the mail if you want to try and work with it.

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If the OP doesn't take you up on this I will.
Cheers,
Burton