Carbon build up??

Hope this is a good place to post this
I assume this is built up carbon after years of use and someone not cleaning it. I feel like I have done everything since I bought this rifle but it does not seem to be improving well, heres what Ive tried

hoppes no9 bench rest, my normal
jb bore shine
scrubbing like hell with bore size and up from bore size brushes
home made electrochemical cleaning with ammonia and the hoppes
letting it soak for 3 days in the hoppes bench rest then scrubbing
Ive shot and then cleaned like some recommend to no avail.

Any other advice for baked on carbon?

your pictures look to me like corrosion and pitting - a so called "dark" bore.

If you want to try to remove carbon, go to your local hardware store and buy CLR -

wet patch with CLR, but do not leave it in for an extended period.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lee Enfield

corrosion and pitting

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Kind of what I was thinking. With all you've done, it's all that can remain. Yes, I had one exactly like that. Can you get your hands on a borescope for a real look inside?

Unfortunately - yes - that's corrosion and pitting. Using a borescope will only discourage you further.**
And leaving the bore to soak in aggresive chemicals can cause further pitting underneath the hard deposits!

About all you can do is to smooth it out. May I suggest that you take a look at this contribution?

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....ight=challenge

Otherwise, I can only suggest bore-lapping.

Give the above-mentioned methods a try.

Good luck!
Patrick

** I have an original Winchester 94 in 32-40. An expert with a borescope told me it was scrap and I should pass it on to a collector. I ignored his advice and continued with my methods (see above). It now shoots better than most modern replicas, regardless of how it looks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

Unfortunately - yes - that's corrosion and pitting. Using a borescope will only discourage you further.**
And leaving the bore to soak in aggresive chemicals can cause further pitting underneath the hard deposits!

About all you can do is to smooth it out. May I suggest that you take a look at this contribution?

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....ight=challenge

Otherwise, I can only suggest bore-lapping.

Give the above-mentioned methods a try.

Good luck!
Patrick

** I have an original Winchester 94 in 32-40. An expert with a borescope told me it was scrap and I should pass it on to a collector. I ignored his advice and continued with my methods (see above). It now shoots better than most modern replicas, regardless of how it looks.

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That's pretty cool but since I am not allowed to have tools, I would let my gunsmith do it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

It now shoots better than most modern replicas, regardless of how it looks.

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This part brings us back to past discussions about sh*tty bores shooting magic and perfect bores that wouldn't group sh*t. You can't tell until you get to work. Maybe that's what you could do, shoot it and work it until either success or defeat is proven.

"Maybe that's what you could do, shoot it and work it until either success or defeat is proven."

- Which gives me an idea. Thanks Jim. There are now quite a few lead-free bullets available for hunting in areas where lead is forbidden. Quite expensive, as they are turned from some kind of brass or copper. However, you only need a pack of 20 or so. If you load some rounds with light charges and fill the bullet grooves with lapping paste, you will achieve the same effect as with the two methods described previously. But clean and check the bore after every 5 shots, as you don't want to overdo the lapping. You will never get it to look like a new bore again, but this would remove a lot of crud and take off any rough edges from rust pits.

"...since I am not allowed to have tools..." ??? But you are allowed to have a gun??? Or is this a domestic restriction? Are you allowed to reload? If nothing else is permitted, how about buying some rounds loaded with lead bullets and smearing a touch of lapping paste on the noses before firing. And I really do mean just a smear, not a blob! And real lapping paste, like the NECO 1200 grit, if that is still available.

I did precisely this to recover a neglected bore on an Artillery Luger (LP08). It worked a treat. Clean. 5 rounds with lapping paste. Clean. 5 rounds without paste. Clean and repeat until it looks good enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lee Enfield

wet patch with CLR, but do not leave it in for an extended period.

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do be careful, CLR works great but will remove bluing and some other finishes (don't ask how in know). When I have a rifle needing CLR, I tilt the bore slightly down, and work from the muzzle end. Keep towel handy and continually dry the muzzle as you patch. It only takes a few minutes for bluing to wear off the crown if you aren't careful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

"Maybe that's what you could do, shoot it and work it until either success or defeat is proven."

- Which gives me an idea. Thanks Jim. There are now quite a few lead-free bullets available for hunting in areas where lead is forbidden. Quite expensive, as they are turned from some kind of brass or copper. However, you only need a pack of 20 or so. If you load some rounds with light charges and fill the bullet grooves with lapping paste, you will achieve the same effect as with the two methods described previously. But clean and check the bore after every 5 shots, as you don't want to overdo the lapping. You will never get it to look like a new bore again, but this would remove a lot of crud and take off any rough edges from rust pits.

"...since I am not allowed to have tools..." ??? But you are allowed to have a gun??? Or is this a domestic restriction? Are you allowed to reload? If nothing else is permitted, how about buying some rounds loaded with lead bullets and smearing a touch of lapping paste on the noses before firing. And I really do mean just a smear, not a blob! And real lapping paste, like the NECO 1200 grit, if that is still available.

I did precisely this to recover a neglected bore on an Artillery Luger (LP08). It worked a treat. Clean. 5 rounds with lapping paste. Clean. 5 rounds without paste. Clean and repeat until it looks good enough.

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Definitely a domestic restriction! I have been told that when I use tools, people get injured and kids learn new words. It's a good thing firearms aren't listed as tools or I would be in big trouble!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

lapping paste,

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Maybe, what's he got to lose?

Whats a recommended lapping paste, some fine stuff Id imagine? 600 grit? Tried the 220 lapping paste and brass screw trick to recrown before but thats too much no?

I have a question, would using a small square of cloth with coconut oil (the kind you can buy in gun stores) on it running it through the bore hurt anything? I know it removes bluing so if you did that you would have to be extremely careful to only touch the bore but seems to me it would work removing carbon buildup. I have a Colt King Cobra revolver from the '80s that is stainless steel and I use the coconut cloth to remove the powder and burn marks off the cylinder face all the time and it works like a charm.but I have never heard of anyone using it in the bore of a barrel and there may be a reason for that. Just figured I would bring it up as a possible solution?

any places raised from surface rust can be taken care of with JB paste and elbow grease. I would start there, then shoot it before attempting anything more agressive.

Put a cork in the muzzle, fill the barrel with regular bore solvent and leave it for a few hours. It won't fix or even help with the corrosion and pitting but the carbon will be loosened.
Endless patches and brushes won't do anything.

I used jb bore paste going at it for a couple hours to nominal if any result and I have plugged the barrel and let solvent soak for a couple days twice, that did seem to help a bit but scrubbing with brushes and patches seem to be necessary for a while

You can also pour boiling water down from the chamber (Rig up a plastic tube and funnel thats what I did)end patch out whilst hot let it cool the excessive heat will dry any moisture then when you can just barely rest your hand on it get to work with either JB paste and Sweets there are two types of JB paste you'll want the Greeny/Grey looking one the Red one is super fine for polishing bores on F-class rigs.
Don't leave the sweets in too long its pretty wicked stuff after you have patched it swab the bore with methylated spirits let dry then oil it up with sweets oil as that will continue to work on the copper wash your bronze brushes in metho after wards otherwise the sweets will still work on the copper in them.
Have plenty of patches and knock yourself up a bore guide from the chamber end if working from the muzzle be very careful you don't induce the symptom called cord wear on one side of the muzzle be prepared for plenty of elbow exercise don't cut your 4x2 too wide to start with either the rough bore is gunna grab onto the flannelette like a virgins draws at midnight.

Much of what people refer to as "Carbon" is oxidized detritus from the bullet jacket and some from the actual case. Smokeless propellants leave very little residue because the Nitro-Cellulose (and Nitro-Glycerine) are compounds, not "mixtures" like black powder and thus, pretty much the entire propellant goes from solid to gas rather rapidly. About the only "Carbon" that may be in the propellant, apart from that in the "Cellulose" part of the "Nitro-Cellulose", is a tiny amount of Graphite used as a static electricity "suppressant" and "flow improver" in the loading process. Any stray "Carbon" in the bore after ignition will probably bond with the atmospheric oxygen in the bore at the sort of temperatures involved. There is, however, that other "greenhouse gas", water vapour, formed in all this high-temperature conversion from solid to gas. Not likely to stick around long in a warm barrel, however.

Think about the forces and temperatures at work when a cartridge fires and it makes sense.

Nickel bullet jackets certainly leave nasty "streaks" in barrels. Gilding metal (basically a soft brass) also leaves distinctly-coloured streaks. Leave that lot sit in a barrel that is regularly firing corrosively primed ammo, i.e. almost ALL surplus .303 ammo ever made, and the chloride salts from primer ignition will be embedded in layers in your bore. Hence the time-honoured trick with the boiling water and the nifty funnel.

Most modern bore cleaners will work, but it's not "a quick once-over" and done. If you are using "surplus" ammo, re-clean a couple of days later. (Also done with the "water-cleaned" rifles). The crud that "sweats" out of the bore over a couple of days is disturbing when first encountered.

Even chrome-lined barrels are subject to corrosion with ANY ammo, if not given correct attention.

The chrome lining is not some impervious miracle shield. It is basically there to reduce wear and erosion, not totally remove the need for cleaning. Hard chroming in barrels is utterly different from what is found on the "shiny bits" of classic cars. There is NO pre-plating with copper, for a start. Hard Chrome is formed on the steel substrate as tiny "nodules", and it actually looks "lumpy' under a microscope. However, this is actually part of the reason chrome lined barrels seem to be "slick" to bullets. The bullet is actually riding on the tops of these little nodules and thus has less surface contact and thus "drag". Back in my younger days of shooting the L1A1 in service and personal use, there was a quick way to tell if the barrel had a fully chromed chamber and bore, or, as in early ones, just a plated chamber. Run a loose patch, soaked in "Sweets" solvent through the barrel. Wait about a minute or so and then run a firm-fitting, clean dry patch through. The "standard" bore would show distinct blue streaks, indicating the removal of jacket fouling. The fully-chromed bores showed virtually NO colouration for the same amount of rounds fired.

The downside of this "slick lumpiness" is that there is micro-porosity between these nodules and that is where the corrosive molecules find their way to the steel substrate. The result is RUST underneath the chrome and the first thing people start to notice is "chunks' of chrome going missing, especially near the muzzle and back near the throat / leade. Furthermore, chrome lining works fairly poorly on conventional "square-cut" rifling. Sharp, external corners, such as on each side of a the lands, create a higher current density and thus greater chrome deposition. This tends to be fragile and gets bashed off by bullets traveling up the bore. The reverse occurs in the tiny corners at the bottom od the grooves, Poor deposition leads to greater risk of corrosion. That is why well-designed chrome-lined barrels have radiused corners on their rifling; see H&K style "polygonal" rifling for the idea. Ditto "5R' rifling.